# God and Mind **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 19, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654 "2013-08-19T19:42:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/121 "2013-08-26T16:05:34Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I want to reiterate that no one having an NDE went to a so-called hell and remained there. Some started their experience in a scary place then went into the light of love. I am not sure why this happens but it tends to happen more to clergymen than others. There is no reason to fear the afterlife in any way. [Bull.](http://monkeywah.typepad.com/paranormalia/2012/05/distressing-near-death-experiences.html) [Bad NDEs happen,](http://iands.org/about-ndes/distressing-ndes.html) and in fact [Nancy Evans Bush has studied hellish NDEs and written a book on the subject.](http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2011/05/hellish-near-death-experiences.html) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/122 "2013-08-26T16:18:33Z")
And [here is a link](http://www.dancingpastthedark.com/) to Nancy Evans Bush’s blog on distressing NDEs. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/123 "2013-08-26T17:38:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [Bull.](http://monkeywah.typepad.com/paranormalia/2012/05/distressing-near-death-experiences.html) [Bad NDEs happen,](http://iands.org/about-ndes/distressing-ndes.html) and in fact [Nancy Evans Bush has studied hellish NDEs and written a book on the subject.](http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2011/05/hellish-near-death-experiences.html) Using your links I will post some quotes: > [@](#): > > Although NDEs have been categorized based on their predominant emotional tone pleasurable or distressing aftereffects of both categories of experience appear quite similar. For example, NDErs of both types often feel challenged to integrate the experience into their subsequent lives. However, whereas virtually all pleasurable NDErs lose their fear of death, distressing NDErs sometimes express a fear of death and often ask, Why me? Why did I have a distressing experience when most people have a pleasurable one? > > Rommer concluded along with other researchers that, in the long run, as with pleasurable NDErs, virtually all distressing NDErs ultimately found the experience extremely beneficial. For example, > > ``` > Someone who had a lifelong pattern of using emotional isolation to avoid being rejected by others, may have a distressing NDE of the eternal void, in which he realized that profound, endless isolation is not what he really wants. Afterwards, he may develop his ability to be emotionally vulnerable to others, to deal with the occasional disappointments that such vulnerability brings, and to enjoy the frequent rewards of connecting intimately with others. > Another distressing NDEr may report that in her NDE, she engaged in a life-and-death struggle with a demonic being; for the first time in her life, she genuinely called out to God for help; and for the first time she experienced the genuine presence of, and communion with, God. > > ``` I have said many times that there are negative NDEs, I have not fooled anyone. These NDEs are from 1% to 15% of the total of experiences. That means 85% to 99% of NDEs are positive, filled with love and caring. I found no contradictions to what I have been saying in your links. Nothing to fear. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/124 "2013-08-26T17:52:26Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I have said many times that there are negative NDEs, I have not fooled anyone. These NDEs are from 1% to 15% of the total of experiences. That means 85% to 99% of NDEs are positive, filled with love and caring. I found no contradictions to what I have been saying in your links. Nothing to fear. Of course there’s nothing to fear-it’s just a dream, and you’ve come up with no evidence that indicates otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/125 "2013-08-26T18:05:01Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Nothing to fear. As an aside, please explain this specific tick: Are you under impression that folks here reject your beliefs out of fear? Or is this your not so subtle attempt to goad and insult people? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/126 "2013-08-26T18:12:47Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > God once told my grandmother to drop, with instantaneous mental directions on exactly how to do it. Her leg was on fire at the time. > > I, personally, don’t think it was God, but I’ve had similar sudden revelations, so I believe that she experienced the sudden internal voice with instantaneous unfolding of understanding. _It’s also entirely possible that her leg wasn’t that on fire._ But I’m going to give her a pass on that. Okay, that’s officially my favorite sentence I’ve read all day. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/127 "2013-08-26T20:01:35Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > As an aside, please explain this specific tick: > > Are you under impression that folks here reject your beliefs out of fear? > > Or is this your not so subtle attempt to goad and insult people? Neither ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/128 "2013-08-26T21:47:46Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Okay, that’s officially my favorite sentence I’ve read all day. I’d explain more about the circumstances and about Grandma’s tendency to dramatize, but I’d like to think that all you really need to know is already there in an implied sort of way. Best to leave it. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/129 "2013-08-27T11:12:14Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > His heart rate was approx. 1 beat a minute sometimes 2 and it was measured while he was underground. He had achieved a state of suspended animation. This has nothing to do with someone who dies on the operating table and is brought back to life. Not show I watched. He slowed his heart rate down so could be called dead, but wasn’t. There was no wires connected to him either, just during the time he was on the table! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/130 "2013-08-27T11:16:44Z")
There is such a thing as self hypnosis. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/131 "2013-08-27T14:11:23Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Not show I watched. He slowed his heart rate down so could be called dead, but wasn’t. There was no wires connected to him either, just during the time he was on the table! If his heart had not stopped he was not dead. I have read many stories of Yoga’s doing these sort of things. They can even stop their heart for a few seconds and restart it again. The big difference is they know they are not going to die. Death experiencers know they are dead when they leave their bodies. I suggest you read some experiences, there is a link above in a previous post, that will show you the difference. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/132 "2013-08-27T14:12:44Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > There is such a thing as self hypnosis. Yes there is but one doesn’t die during it. Learning about near death experiences is beneficial to all people, but especially to those who suffer from depression or are suicidal. When the person who is suicidal reads about NDEs their changes of trying to commit suicide drops by 60%. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/133 "2013-08-27T14:39:15Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Yes there is but one doesn’t die during it. Learning about near death experiences is beneficial to all people, but especially to those who suffer from depression or are suicidal. When the person who is suicidal reads about NDEs their changes of trying to commit suicide drops by 60%. you did not die, nor were you ‘near death’ - not anymore ‘near death’ than all other people who fall asleep and have a nitemare or dream. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/134 "2013-08-27T17:13:55Z")
> [@simster](#): > > you did not die, nor were you ‘near death’ - not anymore ‘near death’ than all other people who fall asleep and have a nitemare or dream. I was not asleep when it happened, I woke up when I left my body and was near the ceiling. I was given the option to go into the spirit world or continue with my life in the physical. I felt the unconditional love and gained knowledge from the experience, the aftereffects were to change my life forever. Since these are the key elements of a near death experience I know I had one. I really believe I was in a better position to know what happened to me than you. If you don’t wish to believe it is OK with me, I am not offended. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/135 "2013-08-27T17:16:14Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I was not asleep when it happened, I woke up when I left my body and was near the ceiling. I was given the option to go into the spirit world or continue with my life in the physical. I felt the unconditional love and gained knowledge from the experience, the aftereffects were to change my life forever. Since these are the key elements of a near death experience I know I had one. I really believe I was in a better position to know what happened to me than you. If you don’t wish to believe it is OK with me, I am not offended. So - every dream is now a ‘near death’ experience:? I know I chose to live instead of being eaten by zombies last nite - and I felt the ‘love’ all around - does that count as an NDE? I’ve changed my life forever thanks to that experience - I will forever fight the zombie hoard! ‘Near Death’ is ambigous at best in any setting other than clinical - that is the point to be made here - if you are re-defining ‘near death’ to mean ‘any life changing event due to a dream’ - well, you’ve just defined it to be meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/136 "2013-08-27T17:23:09Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > **I was not asleep when it happened, I woke up when I left my body and was near the ceiling.** I was given the option to go into the spirit world or continue with my life in the physical. I felt the unconditional love and gained knowledge from the experience, the aftereffects were to change my life forever. Since these are the key elements of a near death experience I know I had one. I really believe I was in a better position to know what happened to me than you. If you don’t wish to believe it is OK with me, I am not offended. \ - you just said “I was not asleep - I woke up” - seems you are confused - but thats not surprising - ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/137 "2013-08-27T17:55:22Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I was not asleep when it happened, I woke up when I left my body and was near the ceiling. I was given the option to go into the spirit world or continue with my life in the physical. I felt the unconditional love and gained knowledge from the experience, the aftereffects were to change my life forever. Since these are the key elements of a near death experience I know I had one. I really believe I was in a better position to know what happened to me than you. If you don’t wish to believe it is OK with me, I am not offended. In all the time I’ve studied NDEs, I have never come across one that remotely resembled the OBE that you described on your website-all the others involved actually being _near death_. Has any other website that collects NDE accounts accepted yours as a tale of an actual NDE? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/138 "2013-08-27T19:37:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > In all the time I’ve studied NDEs, I have never come across one that remotely resembled the OBE that you described on your website-all the others involved actually being _near death_. Has any other website that collects NDE accounts accepted yours as a tale of an actual NDE? Of course, all experiencers recognize it as valid. It has the classic events of an average NDE. OBE is the beginning only. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/139 "2013-08-27T19:41:34Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Of course, all experiencers recognize it as valid. It has the classic events of an average NDE. OBE is the beginning only. You didn’t answer my question. Who has accepted your tale as an example of an NDE? Also, what did you almost die of? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/140 "2013-08-27T19:57:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You didn’t answer my question. Who has accepted your tale as an example of an NDE? > Also, what did you almost die of? You have asked these questions many, many times, and I have answered them. You can find all the answers about my experiences on my website. Please don’t keep asking the same thing over and over. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654.md?page=8)