# God and Mind **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 19, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654 "2013-08-19T19:42:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/161 "2013-08-28T22:14:17Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I knew what you meant. Good, so the answer is yes or no? > [@](#): > > I have exchanged emails with Blackmore, and we debated the issues.As with most skeptics she had no answers for the fact that experiencers bring back information they could not have known before the experience. I asked her how she could ignore this information and she said: “it is not easy.” Augustine quotes quite extensively from Blackmore, and actually just about everyone in your cite is covered. > [@](#): > > One surprised encounter. We thought it was a NDE. The patient was able to see also while unconscious. Augustine covers this too, which includes Kenneth Ring’s, [NDE’s in the blind.](http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/HNDEs.html#blind) It’s just not presented in the same light that the NDE crowd wants them reported in. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/162 "2013-08-28T22:23:48Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > Good, so the answer is yes or no? > > Augustine quotes quite extensively from Blackmore, and actually just about everyone in your cite is covered. > > Augustine covers this too, which includes Kenneth Ring’s, [NDE’s in the blind.](http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/HNDEs.html#blind) It’s just not presented in the same light that the NDE crowd wants them reported in. He does not cover the subject at all, he just makes up something he thinks will work. He doesn’t explain how the blind could describe the items he saw. Pure nonsense on the part of Augustine. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/163 "2013-08-28T22:29:50Z")
I take it, the answer is NO. Not surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/164 "2013-08-28T22:31:08Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > He does not cover the subject at all, he just makes up something he thinks will work. > He doesn’t explain how the blind could describe the items he saw. Pure nonsense on the part of Augustine. Be specific of this nonsense Augustine speaks of and just makes up. I want to make corrections if he has erred. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/165 "2013-08-28T23:51:41Z")
Oh look, NDE nutbaggery for 3 pages and yet Lekatt has failed to provide one single scientifically rigorous citation - that is, one such event that can actually be established to have _actually happened_. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/166 "2013-08-29T01:35:39Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Oh look, NDE nutbaggery for 3 pages and yet Lekatt has failed to provide one single scientifically rigorous citation - that is, one such event that can actually be established to have _actually happened_. That’s ok - god don’t mind. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/167 "2013-08-29T11:34:43Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > If you can know something is false without even reading about it you must be a miraculous person. I need to study both sides of a debate before I can make a decision whether to believe it or not. > > This world is still full of things undiscovered. It is great fun to search for truth in all things. Can you say why you are not curious about different things. I don’t know what you mean by with out reading about it. It is when people make claims they can’t prove just believe then I am not convinced they really have any experience except something from their own mind. It seems to me you quit looking for the truth and just decided to believe, That is your right. But since you have no proof, I can’t agree with you. Any one can make a statement that God talks to them directly but since they cannot even prove that God exists it would seem to me that something that comes into a human’s mind isn’t proof it was God! ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/168 "2013-08-29T14:42:19Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I don’t know what you mean by with out reading about it. It is when people make claims they can’t prove just believe then I am not convinced they really have any experience except something from their own mind. It seems to me you quit looking for the truth and just decided to believe, That is your right. But since you have no proof, I can’t agree with you. > > Any one can make a statement that God talks to them directly but since they cannot even prove that God exists it would seem to me that something that comes into a human’s mind isn’t proof it was God! It all depends on what He says whether it comes from God. God is love, unconditional love and I have been in His presence. No mistake about that, and no fear, no worry, He loves everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/169 "2013-08-29T14:47:17Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > It all depends on what He says whether it comes from God. God is love, unconditional love and I have been in His presence. No mistake about that, and no fear, no worry, He loves everyone. That’s your opinion, unsupported by anything you have ever presented in all the years you’ve posted. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/170 "2013-08-29T14:50:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That’s your opinion, unsupported by anything you have ever presented in all the years you’ve posted. It was supported by everything I have posted, my website and blog, all my UTube videos, it is my life’s work. What about love is it that makes you unhappy. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/171 "2013-08-29T14:56:30Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > It was supported by everything I have posted, my website and blog, all my UTube videos, it is my life’s work. None of it actual evidence of your claim. What a phenomenal waste of time and effort. > [@](#): > > What about love is it that makes you unhappy. Leave the psychoanalysis to the experts-you handle it about as well as you handle all the other sciences. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/172 "2013-08-29T15:11:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > None of it actual evidence of your claim. What a phenomenal waste of time and effort.Leave the psychoanalysis to the experts-you handle it about as well as you handle all the other sciences. OK I will leave it at that, but I don’t understand why you think promoting love is such a bad thing, it is the same as promoting God. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/173 "2013-08-29T17:10:20Z")
Why does god need promoting? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/174 "2013-08-29T17:13:35Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > OK I will leave it at that, but I don’t understand why you think promoting love is such a bad thing… I never said it was. Why don’t you stick to responding to my actual words, o.k.? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/175 "2013-08-29T17:20:36Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Why does god need promoting? So he can get rich enough to buy a starship. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/176 "2013-08-29T19:45:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I never said it was. Why don’t you stick to responding to my actual words, o.k.? So promoting God is not a bad thing either since God is love. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/177 "2013-08-29T19:47:05Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > So promoting God is not a bad thing either since God is love. That is your unsupported opinion-that there is a God, and that God is love. Since I am an atheist, I can’t very well agree to either part of that premise, can it? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/178 "2013-08-30T00:23:58Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Why does god need promoting? So many people have been told God will punish them and now they are afraid of God. It is necessary to tell the real story that God does not punish anyone for anything. That God is unconditional love. He loves all His children and holds them safe and secure. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/179 "2013-08-30T02:02:58Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > So many people have been told God will punish them and now they are afraid of God. It is necessary to tell the real story that God does not punish anyone for anything. That God is unconditional love. He loves all His children and holds them safe and secure. And who told you all this? ---
**Author:** ![bhamfree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3bc359/32.png) [@bhamfree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bhamfree)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/180 "2013-08-30T02:24:39Z")
> [@SC2Maar](#): > > Please don’t get angry at me for this question. I have to ask because I am curious. > > We can’t hear mind. We can’t see it. We can’t taste it. We can’t feel it by touching. We can’t smell it. > > But we know `mind` exists. > > So, can God exist in the same way that mind exist? > > Mind is not a material. It is not a energy. But we know it exist. So why can’t god exist? It seems the difference is that we are minds in a sense. Yeah, it is probably impossible to demonstrate the existence of other minds, but the existence of other people is a different issue. I’ve never experienced a God. I’ve experienced a mind and it isn’t a far stretch to accept that other creatures like me also have minds. Are you familiar with Alvin Plantinga’s writings on this subject? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654.md?page=10)