# God and the Problem Of Evil. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2012, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411 "2012-10-31T08:57:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/221 "2012-12-03T06:41:39Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > But it’s straightforward to concede that while an omnimax God is inconsistent with the existence of evil, that evil could logically coexist with a God that is slightly short of omnimax. It would have to be far short of omnimax to be very consistent with the world as we see it however. Less moral or less capable than humans, or simply unaware we are here given that humans have improved ourselves morally and materially without any help from any gods. A “god” that is less powerful and effective than human organizations isn’t much of a god. More to the point, if a postulated god isn’t omnimax, then the POE doesn’t apply to it and it isn’t the subject of this thread. The POE only exists when people aren’t willing to postulate a less-than-omnimax god; a weak or immoral or ignorant god poses no such problem. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > The Biblical basis for omnimax after all is less than overwhelming. It contradicts the Bible. The omnimax concept is is the result of 2000+ years of fanwanking, like Superman’s constant upwards power creep with more time to work with. ---
**Author:** ![missyzilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9a28c/32.png) [@missyzilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missyzilly)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/222 "2012-12-03T08:31:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are you somehow under the impression that we haven’t tried that tack before? A lot of atheists are former religionists that never got answered back no matter how sincere they were. Have you tried to ask? I take you have. Let me tell you about myself. This is very hard me to talk about so please read with a open mind. After I post this I will not come back on this site because it will be to painful to be judged. Here goes…When I was a little girl age 5. I was in a shopping mall with my mom. My father left my mother and my two sisters and my brother. While shopping my dad and his new girlfriend came to shop . What happened was my now stepmother beat my mother in front of my sister and I. I ran too the desk and said please help my mommy is getting beat! My sister who is 5 years older was screaming because my dad was holding her back from helping my mom. God was with me then. Then as I grew older my dad became very rich. That was great but we went without food for days. God was there. Things started to get a little better so I thought… My brother was so hurt by the fact that my dad did not love us that he shot himself in the head on new years. I was 14 he was 17. God was there. As I grew older my uncle molested me. I just forgave him. Now im 38 and I found out my mother who was always there for me has cancer. I only have Jesus . He is the only Father I have known. If I did not have prayer and his comfort I would kill myself. He will answer you get on your knees and cry to him…I promise he will be there. ---
**Author:** ![Puzzler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d07c76/32.png) [@Puzzler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Puzzler)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/223 "2012-12-03T09:25:00Z")
I hope comics are allowed in GD. These address the issue and raise some good points. > **[Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Selected](https://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2580)** > > Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Selected > **[Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Selected](https://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2560#comic)** > > Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Selected > **[Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Selected](https://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2382#comic)** > > Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Selected > **[Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Selected](https://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2292#comic)** > > Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Selected ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/224 "2012-12-03T09:46:07Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Isn’t the standard answer “Because you can’t have ‘good’ without evil.” Which is a crock of shit, BTW. First, because you can absolutely have “not good” without having “actively evil”, second because even if there only \*was \*perfect good as far as the eye could see, HOW BAD WOULD THAT BE ? So people wouldn’t acknowledge or even realize you were being “good”, you precious snowflake you. Fuck _you_. The outcome would still, objectively, be good. Good is self-sufficient. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/225 "2012-12-03T12:13:49Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > So people wouldn’t acknowledge or even realize you were being “good”, you precious snowflake you. Fuck _you_. This is not The BBQ Pit. Knock it off. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/226 "2012-12-03T12:22:44Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This is not The BBQ Pit. Knock it off. > > [/Moderating] Even a hypothetical god is out of bounds for insults here ? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/227 "2012-12-03T12:45:12Z")
> [@trabajabamos](#): > > It’s a bit off-topic now, but are you suggesting that God is deliberately opaque to allow the existence of faith or that God is unknowable simply because true “knowledge” of God lies beyond the reach of the natural world? > > If the former, then we only really know one thing about God: That He is coy. We don’t even know why He values faith. We certainly don’t know His intentions or what He wants, assuming He wants anything at all. Additionally, God should really know that revealing Himself directly subverts His divine mystery and necessarily destroys the faith of people who experience Him, right? You can’t un-have a divine revelation, I wouldn’t think. > > If the latter, you’re just opening a big can of worms unless you care to conjecture as regards ways the supernatural can interface with the natural or describe what it means, practically, to be outside of existence. And, if one is not in existence, it doesn’t exist!! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/228 "2012-12-03T12:53:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are you somehow under the impression that we haven’t tried that tack before? A lot of atheists are former religionists that never got answered back no matter how sincere they were. I agree with you, and One should not have to beg a good father for the things they need, and no good father would give anything harmful to it’s child, not deprive them of what they need, the difference is that a human father is not sure, where a supreme being that is all knowing would not have to be told. One could pray to a carrot and say if it got what they wanted ,"carrot answered my prayer, or the carrot said no. It is a matter of faith and for me it means to each it’s own. what ever floats your boat! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/229 "2012-12-03T13:02:30Z")
> [@missyzilly](#): > > Have you tried to ask? I take you have. Let me tell you about myself. This is very hard me to talk about so please read with a open mind. After I post this I will not come back on this site because it will be to painful to be judged. Here goes…When I was a little girl age 5. I was in a shopping mall with my mom. My father left my mother and my two sisters and my brother. While shopping my dad and his new girlfriend came to shop . What happened was my now stepmother beat my mother in front of my sister and I. I ran too the desk and said please help my mommy is getting beat! My sister who is 5 years older was screaming because my dad was holding her back from helping my mom. God was with me then. Then as I grew older my dad became very rich. That was great but we went without food for days. God was there. Things started to get a little better so I thought… My brother was so hurt by the fact that my dad did not love us that he shot himself in the head on new years. I was 14 he was 17. God was there. As I grew older my uncle molested me. I just forgave him. Now im 38 and I found out my mother who was always there for me has cancer. I only have Jesus . He is the only Father I have known. If I did not have prayer and his comfort I would kill myself. He will answer you get on your knees and cry to him…I promise he will be there. Thank you for the religious glurge. That type of promise is rather insulting to those that have prayed and still haven’t gotten an answer because it implies that, unlike you, _they_ haven’t tried hard enough or sincerely enough to get the help that you claim you received. By the way, have you noticed that horrible things just keep happening to you despite all the praying you do? Were there others around you that did nothing to stop these horrible situations from happening to you and, if so, do you praise the fact that _they_ stood by and did nothing? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/230 "2012-12-03T13:14:08Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Even a hypothetical god is out of bounds for insults here ? Ah. Count me among those that got whooshed. I hope god doesn’t Pit you 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/231 "2012-12-03T14:38:47Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Ah. Count me among those that got whooshed. > > I hope god doesn’t Pit you 🙂 Well, if I’m perfectly honest I’m not entirely sure at this point whether I was taking a hypothetical deity to task, or the people for whom the facile “there wouldn’t be good if there wasn’t evil, duh” rationalization suffices, or mankind as a whole. I was a bit angrily tanked when I wrote that post. That said, I do know it wasn’t aimed at **pancakes** , who merely stated the pants-on-head view existed and was a standard response (which it is) without giving any indication one way or the other of espousing it him/herself. The “you” was at worst a general one. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/232 "2012-12-03T16:23:00Z")
I assumed it was directed at the snowflakes and took no umbrage. ---
**Author:** ![missyzilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9a28c/32.png) [@missyzilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missyzilly)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/233 "2012-12-03T22:55:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Thank you for the religious glurge. That type of promise is rather insulting to those that have prayed and still haven’t gotten an answer because it implies that, unlike you, _they_ haven’t tried hard enough or sincerely enough to get the help that you claim you received. By the way, have you noticed that horrible things just keep happening to you despite all the praying you do? Were there others around you that did nothing to stop these horrible situations from happening to you and, if so, do you praise the fact that _they_ stood by and did nothing? I did sound like I get my prayers answered sorry.. I was just saying that even though I have been through hell I see that in my case not yours that all of the crap that happened was human choice God did not do it. Now that does not apply in ever case I no. But I still think that God will answer us if we do what he says in regards to prayer. As I type this I realize how stupid I sound but hear me out. Nothing I asked God seemed to get through . Keep in mind im not a christian. But what I did was this. I had one need so I got on my knees asked for forgiveness then I said to God I forgive any person who has harmed me . I also asked that he would forgive me for blaming him. I blamed him more than anyone. And when I was done I felt like a weight had lifted off of me. Like I said Im truly sorry for how my prior comment sounded I did not mean it that way. ---
**Author:** ![missyzilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9a28c/32.png) [@missyzilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missyzilly)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/234 "2012-12-03T23:18:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why those that claim that the suffering we go through in life is the price we pay for it don’t see the abject unfairness of that concept totally baffles me. Either we are all equal and should all pay the same price, or we are all unequal and God is giving discounts to a not-particularly-rightious select few. I read some of your posts and it is apparent that you know more about God then I. If I offended you with my ignorance I want to say sorry. I just have simple answers that are not helping. I wish I could make sense of this life and God. But I can not . I feel real dumb after seeing how your arguments are much stronger and sensible than mine…😕 ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/235 "2012-12-03T23:28:38Z")
**missyzilly** , you should be aware that most of the people who post in the Great Debates forum do so because they like to argue, and that anything anyone says here is liable to be challenged. ---
**Author:** ![missyzilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9a28c/32.png) [@missyzilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missyzilly)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/236 "2012-12-03T23:48:29Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > **missyzilly** , you should be aware that most of the people who post in the Great Debates forum do so because they like to argue, and that anything anyone says here is liable to be challenged. I have never seen anything like this website! I just see that if I make a comment I need to have my facts in order. People on this site are highly intelligent and I really enjoy learning. I want to see other peoples point of view and learn how to be a better person. I feel like a child in here.:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/237 "2012-12-03T23:50:33Z")
> [@missyzilly](#): > > I have never seen anything like this website! I just see that if I make a comment I need to have my facts in order. People on this site are highly intelligent and I really enjoy learning. I want to see other peoples point of view and learn how to be a better person. I feel like a child in here.:eek: Which version of the Bible do you follow, and how much of it have you read? ---
**Author:** ![missyzilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9a28c/32.png) [@missyzilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missyzilly)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/238 "2012-12-04T00:12:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which version of the Bible do you follow, and how much of it have you read? I read the whole bible only once niv. I just started The King James version. And I just downloaded a program to teach myself Hebrew so I can read the Torah. I have alot to learn. I have been truly humbled by your knowledge . Thank you . I really thought I had a superior understanding of the bible…lololol WOW. I no nothing. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/239 "2012-12-04T01:40:42Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Even a hypothetical god is out of bounds for insults here ? You need to be sufficiently clear in what you are mocking. While you now appear to claiming that you were attacking your idea of someone else’s deity, it was not clear from your post that you were not actually attacking another poster. ---
**Author:** ![missyzilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9a28c/32.png) [@missyzilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missyzilly)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/240 "2012-12-04T04:13:09Z")
[quote=“tomndebb, post:239, topic:639411”] You need to be sufficiently clear in what you are mocking. While you now appear to claiming that you were attacking your idea of someone else’s deity, it was not clear from your post that you were not actually attacking another poster.[/QUOTE [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411.md?page=13)