# God and the Problem Of Evil. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2012, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411 "2012-10-31T08:57:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/281 "2013-01-17T22:51:02Z")
> [@M.Wilkinson](#): > > Of course there would be distraught parents, but maybe their next child will be healthy. Or maybe it won’t. Some diseases are inherited, and some people just have bad luck. But even if the next child is healthy, one child does not simply replace another for a grieving parent. What a nice god that sounds like: “I created the disease that killed your child, but if you have another child, maybe it won’t die! You’re welcome. Worship me now.” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/282 "2013-01-17T23:02:47Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > But even if the next child is healthy, one child does not simply replace another for a grieving parent. What a nice god that sounds like: “I created the disease that killed your child, but if you have another child, maybe it won’t die! You’re welcome. Worship me now.” I’ve heard more than a few believers use that argument to defend the story of Job as God being benevolent. “He let Job’s family be destroyed, but he provided Job with a new one so everything is just fine!” ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/283 "2013-01-17T23:34:34Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’ve heard more than a few believers use that argument to defend the story of Job as God being benevolent. “He let Job’s family be destroyed, but he provided Job with a new one so everything is just fine!” It’s obvious God is benevolent because, He allows us to suffer so that we could be stronger. I don’t like quoting him because, he’s on your side. F. Nietzhe said, “What doesn’t kill me makes me stronger.” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/284 "2013-01-17T23:44:38Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > It’s obvious God is benevolent because, He allows us to suffer so that we could be stronger. Which is a ridiculous claim. A creator god could simply have made us as strong as he pleased from the start. And…without the things causing that suffering, what would we need to be strong for? If you are “strong” and suffering, then what has that strength gotten you? > [@pchaos](#): > > I don’t like quoting him because, he’s on your side. F. Nietzhe said, “What doesn’t kill me makes me stronger.” Which is nonsense. What doesn’t kill you typically warps and weakens you at least as often as it makes you stronger. If someone were to go chop off a man’s arms and legs and defend themselves in court by saying “I was jut making him stronger”, that wouldn’t work very well as a defense. And Nietzsche isn’t on my side. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/285 "2013-01-17T23:52:20Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > It’s obvious God is benevolent because, He allows us to suffer so that we could be stronger. Right. When you suffer and die, you’re stronger in that… you can’t suffer anymore because you’re dead? Walk me through this, please. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/286 "2013-01-18T00:01:47Z")
> [@M.Wilkinson](#): > > I haven’t read the whole thread but I suppose everyone is saying what they think. > Firstly, since we have free will, this means there will be people who choose to hurt other people and do many other bad things. God seems to have been perfectly willing to curtail my free will when it comes to my desire to jump 1000 ft straight up. Why could he not curtail my free will to actively cause harm to others in the same way? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/287 "2013-01-18T00:02:45Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Right. When you suffer and die, you’re stronger in that… you can’t suffer anymore because you’re dead? Walk me through this, please. F. Nietzsche was one of the founding fathers of Nihilism. And of course, he was speaking of people being psychologically stronger if they didn’t die from all the evil in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/288 "2013-01-18T00:06:21Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > F. Nietzsche was one of the founding fathers of Nihilism. I know who Nietzsche was. That’s why I didn’t ask you who he was. > [@](#): > > And of course, he was speaking of people being psychologically stronger if they didn’t die from all the evil in the world. I know what he was talking about. I am asking _you_ about _your_ statement that God is benevolent because he allows suffering, which makes us stronger. It frequently doesn’t. Some people get over trauma or illness, but some don’t get over it and some are killed without a chance to get over it. So how does that makes them stronger, and how does that suffering indicate benevolence? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/289 "2013-01-18T00:16:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I know who Nietzsche was. That’s why I didn’t ask you who he was. > > I know what he was talking about. I am asking _you_ about _your_ statement that God is benevolent because he allows suffering, which makes us stronger. It frequently doesn’t. Some people get over trauma or illness, but some don’t get over it and some are killed without a chance to get over it. So how does that makes them stronger, and how does that suffering indicate benevolence? The Bible (Both OT and NT) has been used by Priests, Ministers, Pastors etc. to console grieving families for thousands of years. Their role was to explain to people that there was a reason for the early death of their child and try to console them. They needed to explain to them that in spite of their child dying early and for no apparent reason they would be psychologically stronger afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/290 "2013-01-18T00:21:32Z")
So why didn’t God use his magic to just make them psychologically stronger? Not seeing how killing their child is the best way to achieve those results. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/291 "2013-01-18T00:29:26Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > F. Nietzsche was one of the founding fathers of Nihilism. And of course, he was speaking of people being psychologically stronger if they didn’t die from all the evil in the world. Nonsense. Dead is dead. You can’t beat terminal cancer (or a head-on 130 MPH collision, or an earthquake, tsunami, still-born deaths, what have you) nor do you become “stronger psychologically.” You are DEAD. Honestly, how absurd. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/292 "2013-01-18T00:30:28Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > So why didn’t God use his magic to just make them psychologically stronger? Not seeing how killing their child is the best way to achieve those results. Normally, God does not interfere with human affairs. That’s why the birth of Jesus Christ was such a major event. To Christians, he is the Messiah. He is also important to Islam and the Jews. Christ was God’s way of showing that He loved us. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/293 "2013-01-18T00:53:09Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Normally, God does not interfere with human affairs. Cite when he does, please. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/294 "2013-01-18T00:56:47Z")
Every once in a while, there’s a prophet, Messiah, or Saint, otherwise it’s hands-off. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/295 "2013-01-18T01:01:11Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Normally, God does not interfere with human affairs. Except throughout the bible. Don’t you even think about the answers before you scramble to defend your beliefs? > [@](#): > > That’s why the birth of Jesus Christ was such a major event. To Christians, he is the Messiah. He is also important to Islam and the Jews. I’m pretty sure Jewish people see Jesus as a con man that got executed. > [@](#): > > Christ was God’s way of showing that He loved us. Eliminating pediatric cancer would be a better way. But that would be hard, because you need to exist to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/296 "2013-01-18T01:05:33Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Every once in a while, there’s a prophet, Messiah, or Saint, otherwise it’s hands-off. Off the top of my head: Flooding the planet. Killing Job’s family. Stopping the planet so the sun hangs in the sky. Destroying the tower of babble. All of Exodus. Sodom and Gomorrah. Yada, yada, yada. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/297 "2013-01-18T01:11:28Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Off the top of my head: Flooding the planet. Killing Job’s family. Stopping the planet so the sun hangs in the sky. Destroying the tower of babble. All of Exodus. Sodom and Gomorrah. Yada, yada, yada. Those are just stories, parables, or extended metaphors. Also, He is suppose to answer prayers. But it’s possible that prayers are answered because mortals become more focused on the event occurring. There’s an occasional miracle that is attributed to God. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/298 "2013-01-18T01:15:42Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Those are just stories, parables, or extended metaphors. Also, He is suppose to answer prayers. But it’s possible that prayers are answered because mortals become more focused on the event occurring. There’s an occasional miracle that is attributed to God. I agree, none of those things happened. You should take the next step and start to question the existence of Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/299 "2013-01-18T15:17:53Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I agree, none of those things happened. You should take the next step and start to question the existence of Jesus. People have. People have questioned the value of their own existence. My problem is that if you get rid of God and you get rid of Evil and you get rid of Heaven and Hell. Life becomes awful dull and dreary. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411/300 "2013-01-18T15:19:54Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > People have. People have questioned the value of their own existence. My problem is that if you get rid of God and you get rid of Evil and you get rid of Heaven and Hell. Life becomes awful dull and dreary. No it doesn’t. My life and the lives of many atheists is my cite. Are you claiming to know more about my life than _I_ do? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-the-problem-of-evil/639411.md?page=16)