# God Bless America, now with 100% more vitriol! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 19, 2007, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702 "2007-09-19T03:31:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/1 "2007-09-19T03:31:36Z")
Yeah, so I guess BrainGlutton is taking the night off or something, so I will take it upon myself to post this bit of weirdness. First, the background. Yesterday evening in Fort Lauderdale they had the “Values Voters” debate. Very exciting stuff, I’m sure. The interesting thing is that the event was kicked off by a choir from Ohio singing _God Bless America_. Oh wait, I typed that wrong. What I meant to say is that they sang something I guess should be called _Why should God bless America?_ It’s sung to the tune of the more familiar song, modulo some scansion problems, and basically condemns the country for going astray. I don’t know whether this has been copyrighted so I’ll just post the chorus and the first verse. You can listen to the whole song at YouTube. [Link to YouTube.com](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X77R_prkCkg) > [@](#): > > Why should God bless America? > She’s forgotten he exists > And has turned her back > On everything that made her what she is. > > Why should God stand beside her > Through the night with the light from his hand? > God have mercy on America > Forgive her sin and heal our land > > The courts ruled prayer out of our schools > In June of ‘62 > Told the children “you are your own God now > So you can make the rules” > O say can you see what that choice > Has cost us to this day > America, one nation under God, has gone astray Yeah. So, what’s the debate? I think there are a couple of things to talk about here. For one thing, is this in good taste? I think it was pretty tacky, myself, but then I’m not a “values voter” so I don’t have the right kind of persecution complex to be in the target audience for this type of thing. Still, it takes a song which is essentially a prayer and turns it into a condemnation of millions of Americans (and a couple of Supreme courts). To me this is along the same lines of re-writing Niebuhr’s prayer to something along the lines of “God, give us grace to accept with serenity that the heathens have taken prayer out of schools, courage to fight back against those damned babykillers, and the wisdom to keep Your name on the currency, as You surely intended it to be.” Also, I can’t help but think that this smacks of “It’s OK if you’re a Republican.” At least as far as I’ve seen, people aren’t tearing out their hair because Mr. Huckabee attended a debate that was kicked off by changing the lyrics to a song which is, again, a prayer into a political something or other. They attend the debate and field questions from Phyllis Schlafly and Rick Scarborough and that’s alright, but when the Democratic counterparts attend Yearly Kos they’ve commited heinous crimes and embarrassed their country. What do you think the consequences of this will be? As I said, if it had been Democrats at the forum instead of Republicans, I would be expecting a large outcry, but for Republicans it’s somehow par for the course. I don’t know how influential a forum this was (and their website is _very_ slim on information) but how significant do you think it was that Guliani, Romney, McCain and Thomson declined to appear? I expect that Thomson didn’t show because, according to the accounts I’ve read, he’s not going to start attending debates until sometime in October and McCain’s campaign is crumbling around his ears. I found it interesting that Romney recieved 0% of the votes in their straw poll (I don’t know any of the other numbers as the website doesn’t offer much in the way of information). Do you think it’s because of the Mormon thing or more of an “out of sight, out of mind” affair? I’m not sure what the answer is to the latter questions, but I’m interested in hearing what some of the Dopers with their fingers more firmly on the pulse of conservative circles think. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/2 "2007-09-19T04:28:53Z")
Sure. Couple of things. The song was tacky. The Values Voter organizaton is a bit on the fringe - I went to the website and the first picture I saw was Alan Keyes, and he’s been persona non grata for a while. I think roughly speaking, I’d place this group at about Kos level in terms of fringe status. And while speaking to a fringe group isn’t a crime, or even necessarily bad politics, it is interesting that the top tier of Republican candidates blew this event off, and the top tier of Democratic candidates made a point to show up at Yearly Kos. I don’t know what it really means yet, but it sure has me watching. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/3 "2007-09-19T06:37:55Z")
> [@](#): > > The courts ruled prayer out of our schools… I surely wish that these folks could find some value in getting their facts straight and telling the truth. Prayer has never been ruled out of schools. Anyone who went to school in the last forty-five years should have been able to figure that out if they have a lick of sense. ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/4 "2007-09-19T07:00:23Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] I surely wish that these folks could find some value in getting their facts straight and telling the truth. Prayer has never been ruled out of schools. Anyone who went to school in the last forty-five years should have been able to figure that out if they have a lick of sense. [/QUOTE] As long as there was third period trig class… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/5 "2007-09-19T10:38:42Z")
Well, this is another example of the America-hating wing of conservatism, in the same vein as [Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson after the September 11 attacks](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/falwell.htm) or [Dinesh D’Souza’s _The Enemy at Home_](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/21/books/review/Wolfe.t.html?ex=157680000&en=210ba16472b180e1&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink). A certain segment of conservatives–perhaps it would be better to refer to them as “right-wing”, since I don’t see what it is they want to conserve–often of the “social conservative” or religio-political variety, hate many core American values. Right-wingers of the America-hating variety often tend to believe the United States deserves to suffer some dire fate, including terrorist attacks, what with being so decadent and un-Godly and all. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/6 "2007-09-19T11:27:09Z")
I think it is tacky and silly. If God hasn’t Blessed America yet He never will. Why do we have to tell God what to do. It isn’t a prayer, and in my opinion if we said Please God bless america it would mean America is not blessed. It is like asking a Father who just fed a child to feed his child etc. I never could get what bless meant, someone told me it meant happy or make happy. There has always been crime in America, now the population has grown so much but I would think the percentage is about the same. Years ago there was much of the same things going on it was just kept secret, and people didn’t travel as much as they do today or have the advantage of the automobile as we do in this country now. Nor the press so available. America is still a good country and there is still the majority of good people even those who are not Christian or have no beliefs. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/7 "2007-09-19T12:00:50Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] I think roughly speaking, I’d place this group at about Kos level in terms of fringe status. And while speaking to a fringe group isn’t a crime, or even necessarily bad politics, it is interesting that the top tier of Republican candidates blew this event off, and the top tier of Democratic candidates made a point to show up at Yearly Kos. [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/8 "2007-09-19T12:52:45Z")
> [@](#): > > I think roughly speaking, I’d place this group at about Kos level in terms of fringe status. And while speaking to a fringe group isn’t a crime, or even necessarily bad politics, it is interesting that the top tier of Republican candidates blew this event off, and the top tier of Democratic candidates made a point to show up at Yearly Kos. Perhaps, unlike you, they understand that the thousands and thousands of people who contribute to Daily Kos represent a broad segment of leftward opinion, one that includes the “fringe” but certainly isn’t limited to it. They also understood that the Yearly Kos event was aimed at the netroots as a whole, which represent an even broader swath of opinion. The group may be fringe, but sadly, I’m afraid the whole “we took God out of schools and everything has gone to hell” idea is not limited to any sort of fringe, at least based on the number of e-mail forwards I see on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/9 "2007-09-19T13:16:06Z")
It’s when they took Zeus out of the schools that things really went downhill. Some say it was when the Supreme Court ruled against teacher-led animal sacrifices to Ba’al that things really went south, but those folks are just religious nutcases. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/10 "2007-09-19T13:59:15Z")
[QUOTE=DoctorJ] Perhaps, unlike you, they understand that the thousands and thousands of people who contribute to Daily Kos represent a broad segment of leftward opinion, one that includes the “fringe” but certainly isn’t limited to it. They also understood that the Yearly Kos event was aimed at the netroots as a whole, which represent an even broader swath of opinion. [/QUOTE] Oh, I understand things just fine, thanks. Pandering to some folks and blowing off others makes for good political positioning. And though these Democrats pander now to the Kos crowd, I expect whichever one of them wins or is close to the nomination to pull a “Sister Souljah”, distance themselves from them while holding their votes, and tack to the center. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/11 "2007-09-19T14:31:00Z")
[QUOTE=MEBuckner] Well, this is another example of the America-hating wing of conservatism, in the same vein as [Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson after the September 11 attacks](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/falwell.htm) or [Dinesh D’Souza’s _The Enemy at Home_](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/21/books/review/Wolfe.t.html?ex=157680000&en=210ba16472b180e1&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink). A certain segment of conservatives–perhaps it would be better to refer to them as “right-wing”, since I don’t see what it is they want to conserve–often of the “social conservative” or religio-political variety, hate many core American values. Right-wingers of the America-hating variety often tend to believe the United States deserves to suffer some dire fate, including terrorist attacks, what with being so decadent and un-Godly and all. [/QUOTE] It troubles me that I find your post correct. These are the same people that claim to be followers of Jesus. When I run into this kind of “belief process” I remind them of their leader’s words: “Judge not, lest ye be judged,” “remove the beam from thine own eye before trying to remove the mote from thy brothers.” But most of all “Love one another, love your enemies.” This usually slows them down a bit. I think if others would use that approach it may help. Our country is great because of its diversity, and its laws protecting the right to be different. We must never loose that. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/12 "2007-09-19T15:38:56Z")
[QUOTE=Tenebras] I’m not sure what the answer is to the latter questions, but I’m interested in hearing what some of the Dopers with their fingers more firmly on the pulse of conservative circles think. [/QUOTE] Meh. Just another “blame America” screed by the righties. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/13 "2007-09-19T17:03:17Z")
I suspect were it a popular cause, people’s reactions would be more “Oh, they don’t hate _America_, they just dislike parts of it and want to make America better”. I see dislike of certain trends but I don’t see hate for “America”. Otherwise it’d be “God’s forsaken us, and good for him, fuck us”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/14 "2007-09-19T17:10:21Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] I suspect were it a popular cause, people’s reactions would be more “Oh, they don’t hate _America_, they just dislike parts of it and want to make America better”. I see dislike of certain trends but I don’t see hate for “America”. Otherwise it’d be “God’s forsaken us, and good for him, fuck us”. [/QUOTE] That was my reaction, too. Can someone explain how they get “blame America” or “hate America” out of that? From my perspective, it looks silly, tacky, and maybe a bit mean spirited, but that’s about it. As most of us know, religion did play a bigger role in governmental agencies (like schools) in the recent past, and has been pushed further and further into the background by various court decisions. I personally like that, and think it is in keeping with the spirit of the constitution, but others don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/15 "2007-09-19T17:11:36Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] Prayer has never been ruled out of schools. Anyone who went to school in the last forty-five years should have been able to figure that out if they have a lick of sense. [/QUOTE] As long as there are pop quizzes, there will be prayer in schools 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/16 "2007-09-19T17:23:38Z")
[QUOTE=Tenebras] For one thing, is this in good taste? [/QUOTE] Was the [Fish Cheer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_%22Fish%22_Cheer_/_I-Feel-Like-I%27m-Fixin%27-To-Die_Rag) in good taste? Of cuss not! Who givee rat’s ass?! It’s a classic! 🙂 The fleck of dried assdrool quoted in the OP, OTOH, will be wiped, flushed and forgotten. That’s just the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/17 "2007-09-19T17:26:02Z")
In bad taste, and stoopid. How “conservative” is it to mess with a classic like “God Bless America” just to score some cheap political points with your fellow tin-hatters? ---
**Author:** ![BaneSidhe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c5a1d2/32.png) [@BaneSidhe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BaneSidhe)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/18 "2007-09-19T17:28:23Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] I surely wish that these folks could find some value in getting their facts straight and telling the truth. Prayer has never been ruled out of schools. Anyone who went to school in the last forty-five years should have been able to figure that out if they have a lick of sense. [/QUOTE] They went to school but I doubt they learned jack. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/19 "2007-09-19T18:28:16Z")
Tacky and juvenile. This is not to say that it’s not a fair point of contention to say: “Resolved: that the trend of federal case law removing religion from public schools has extended the reach of the Constitution.” To try to make that point by mangling the song and presenting it via choir is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702/20 "2007-09-19T19:09:38Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] That was my reaction, too. Can someone explain how they get “blame America” or “hate America” out of that? [/QUOTE] It’s funny. The righties will start shrieking with rage if someone suggests that America isn’t the cat’s pjs, right up until they start talking about how America is going to hell in a handbasket. If you’ve never heard someone decry a liberal for “blaming America,” you might not see the irony. I guess I could’ve put a smilie after my comment. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-america-now-with-100-more-vitriol/419702.md?page=2)