# "God Bless John Wayne" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 2, 2004, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188 "2004-10-02T13:19:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/1 "2004-10-02T13:19:24Z")
I was driving home from work and saw a pickup (of the “do you _reeeeeeeaaaaallly_ need a vehicle that big?” variety) with a Bush/Cheney sticker and another one that said “God Bless John Wayne.” WTF? Newish truck, new stickers… ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/2 "2004-10-02T17:16:24Z")
. . . maybe the part that said " . . . Gacy" got torn off? ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/3 "2004-10-02T17:22:02Z")
Any SDMB “Doper” knows by now I am NO John Wayne fan. But enough about what I think - here’s what “the Master” has to say: [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5\_004.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_004.html) I cannot understand the fanatic hero worship for a guy now dead 25 years. As I also like to say, the most decorated hero of WW2 was Audie Murphy 5’ 5" tall and won every medal including the Congressional Medal of Honor. But John Wayne looks the part of the hero and appearances are what counts right? (I am 5’3" by the way) ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/4 "2004-10-02T17:56:23Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > I cannot understand the fanatic hero worship for a guy now dead 25 years. As I also like to say, the most decorated hero of WW2 was Audie Murphy 5’ 5" tall and won every medal including the Congressional Medal of Honor. But John Wayne looks the part of the hero and appearances are what counts right? (I am 5’3" by the way) I assume you’ve never seen _In Harm’s Way_. :: sniff :: That’s what makes a man a hero . . . 😃 Tripler Aw, who am I kidding? My heroes include Indiana Jones and Martin Riggs [sub]Lethal Weapon[/sub] fer chrissakes. . . ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/5 "2004-10-02T20:18:53Z")
Well, if you draw **twickster** ’s name in the upcoming **SDMB** Secret Santa exchange, you now know [just what she’s angling for…](http://www.outlawthreadco.com/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=2881832&showprevnext=1)😃 Then again, if you go drivin’ around with that kind of bumper sticker on your truck, you may be a fan of [Kinky Friedman.](http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/library/services/book-promos/laugh/jonwayne.htm) ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/6 "2004-10-03T00:58:53Z")
Damn, **Sternvogel** , you saw through my subtle manipulations… But seriously, as **wolf\_meister** says – he’s been dead a quarter of a century – why him? why now? ---
**Author:** ![hildea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ebca7d/32.png) [@hildea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hildea)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/7 "2004-10-03T12:49:29Z")
A scene in one of Tor Åge Bringsværd’s (a Norwegian fantasy/SF author) novels or short stories goes something like this: The main character is in a bar in USA, sitting in deep thought. Someone beside him says “God bless America”. The main character doesn’t answer, so the guy repeats, loudly and agressively: “God bless America!” Main character: “Oh, sorry. God bless John Wayne.” Second guy: “Good, for a moment there I thought you weren’t a patriot.” ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/8 "2004-10-03T17:38:41Z")
Maybe it would be interesting to look at actors who did do something: Frank Capra, John Ford, Henry Fonda and John Huston enlisted. Clark Gable and Jimmy Stewart joined the Army Air Corps. Captain Kangaroo and Lee Marvin joined the Marines. Marvin watched the Captain stand up during a firefight, making a target of himself so others could get to cover. Hedy Lamarr invented frequency hopping, spread spectrum communications for the military. Eddy Albert invented a better torpedo. I liked The Duke, but he ain’t no real life hero. He was just an actor. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/9 "2004-10-03T18:49:42Z")
Yeah, the article **wolf\_meister** linked to was extremely interesting, I thought. Of course, I grew up during the '60s, when John Wayne was best known for _The Green Berets_ and other reactionary claptrap (sic). ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/10 "2004-10-03T18:52:20Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Maybe it would be interesting to look at actors who did do something: > > Frank Capra, John Ford, Henry Fonda and John Huston enlisted. > Clark Gable and Jimmy Stewart joined the Army Air Corps. > Captain Kangaroo and Lee Marvin joined the Marines. Marvin watched the Captain stand up during a firefight, making a target of himself so others could get to cover. > Hedy Lamarr invented frequency hopping, spread spectrum communications for the military. > Eddy Albert invented a better torpedo. > > I liked The Duke, but he ain’t no real life hero. He was just an actor. Glenn Miller formed the Army Air Force Band. Hell, even Ronald Reagan made training films in Hollywood, for crissakes! ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/11 "2004-10-03T19:25:21Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Frank Capra, John Ford, Henry Fonda and John Huston enlisted. > Clark Gable and Jimmy Stewart joined the Army Air Corps. > Captain Kangaroo and Lee Marvin joined the Marines. Marvin watched the Captain stand up during a firefight, making a target of himself so others could get to cover. > Hedy Lamarr invented frequency hopping, spread spectrum communications for the military. > Eddy Albert invented a better torpedo. Audrey Hepburn and Magda Gabor worked for the Resistance; Marlene Dietrich smuggled information overseas while entertaining the troops. Carole Lombard died on a War Bonds sales trip. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/12 "2004-10-03T20:10:48Z")
Jimmy Stewart was also the _only_ American actor I know of who joined the military **before** Pearl Harbor. He walked away from his Hollywood career and enlisted while everyone else in Hollywood was still making movies. He also remained in the USAF reserves until the 1960s, retiring as a general, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/13 "2004-10-04T01:59:45Z")
**Tuckerfan** Although he became an actor later in life, **Jason Robards Jr** joined the Navy about one week before the Pearl Harbor attack. And he was stationed at … Pearl Harbor. (He won the Navy Cross by the way). Another person who became an actor later in life, **Ernest Borgnine** , was in the Navy from 1935 to 1945. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/14 "2004-10-04T02:05:56Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > **Tuckerfan** > Although he became an actor later in life, **Jason Robards Jr** joined the Navy about one week before the Pearl Harbor attack. And he was stationed at … Pearl Harbor. > (He won the Navy Cross by the way). > > Another person who became an actor later in life, **Ernest Borgnine** , was in the Navy from 1935 to 1945. Right, and I’m not belittling their service or the service of anyone who honorably served during that war, but Jimmy was already well-known as an actor when he joined up, and he enlisted a _year_ before Pearl Harbor. According to men who served with him, Stewart had the option of taking “milk run” missions, but never did. He also continued to serve in the military after the war was over, which probably makes him unique among Hollywood actors. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/15 "2004-10-04T02:22:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Captain Kangaroo and Lee Marvin joined the Marines. Marvin watched the Captain stand up during a firefight, making a target of himself so others could get to cover. Not to diminish the service of two men who did enlist in the Marines, but this didn’t happen. [http://www.snopes.com/military/keeshan.htm](http://www.snopes.com/military/keeshan.htm) . Captain Kangaroo never saw actual combat. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/16 "2004-10-04T02:22:47Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Captain Kangaroo and Lee Marvin joined the Marines. Marvin watched the Captain stand up during a firefight, making a target of himself so others could get to cover. Not according to [Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/military/keeshan.htm) > [@](#): > > Keeshan was born on 27 June 1927 and enlisted two weeks before his 18th birthday, months too late to have taken part in the fighting at Iwo Jima. A 1997 interview with Keeshan noted that he “later enlisted in the U.S. Marines but saw no combat” because, as Keeshan said, he signed up “just before we dropped the atom bomb.” About John Wayne- he was an actor. I don’t personally think a great one. But for some reason the darling of the right. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/17 "2004-10-04T02:58:25Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > Not to diminish the service of two men who did enlist in the Marines, but this didn’t happen. [http://www.snopes.com/military/keeshan.htm](http://www.snopes.com/military/keeshan.htm) . Captain Kangaroo never saw actual combat. That was circulated and made the rounds at work. Since it didn’t seem to serve any agendas, I had no reason to question it. My apologies to all. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/18 "2004-10-04T07:24:33Z")
Well, John Wayne was a bigoted asshole. In his best role, as Ethan Edwards in _The Searchers_, he plays a bigoted asshole. Who can say he wasn’t honest? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/19 "2004-10-04T14:13:29Z")
Wayne wasn’t a bigot; you confuse his roles with the man. He also played several roles where he was very sympathetic to Indians ( **She Wore a Yellow Ribbon** and **Fort Apache** , and IRL he showed no signs of actual bigotry. Wayne was quite patriotic – in the sense of a WWII patriot, when things were black and white and the world was divided into bad guys and good guys. Things were different in the 60s with Vietnam, but he continued to see things the same way, which led him to think that protest was unpatriotic. People are, of course, looking at Wayne’s image, and his image in a few of his many roles. In addition, they fail to see the complexities in the roles he was in (again, see **Fort Apache** ). Wayne was a pretty good actor, BTW. Just the fact that a lot of people believe that he is some sort of hero certainly shows his ability. Those who don’t think he’s good don’t know what good acting really is. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188/20 "2004-10-05T00:50:40Z")
**RealityChuck** When you say “Wayne was quite patriotic”, I don’t take it the same way you do. I think of his patriotism as the “summer soldier, sunshine patriot” type as Thomas Paine said. The article by Cecil mentions that Wayne had many chances to serve but didn’t. He could not get into the Naval Academy so he went to college. Why didn’t he join the Navy in the 1930’s as Ernest Borgnine did? And yes it really bothered me when he became such a vocal 150% supporter of the Vietnam War. AND to think that he thought protesting it was UN-patriotic. If Mr Wayne thought about it, if it weren’t for a bunch of complainers and protesters, we’d still be ruled by England. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-bless-john-wayne/267188.md?page=2)