# God, Clinton, won't you ever just go away? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 20, 2002, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963 "2002-12-20T03:34:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/101 "2002-12-20T20:54:52Z")
Go fuck yourself, Elvis. You’re a worthless piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Banger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@Banger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banger)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/102 "2002-12-20T20:58:21Z")
Political bile-spewing BBQ Pit threads, you are my car wrecks. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/103 "2002-12-20T21:02:33Z")
Elvis: > [@](#): > > Strom Thurmond I’m proud of Strom. Strom is a former segregationist. He has long since openly repudiated his earlier racist stance from back in the day when he was a Democrat. Personally I have no problem with former racists, and not even former Democrats. If you are suggesting that some Republicans have been bigoted, I would agree. Seeking to make blanket genealizations from that fact is bigotry as well. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/104 "2002-12-20T21:02:54Z")
Kimstu: > [@](#): > > Are you this upset about similarly negative and unsupported remarks made about Democrats or liberals by folks like Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter? Demands for slander indictments could become rather widespread in the current world of nasty partisan backbiting. Not really. One because I’m partisian, but mostly because Limbaugh and Coulter are discredited idiots. Who, among the thinking public, cares what they say? Clinton, on the other hand and whether we conservatives like it or not, is a man of some stature and is capable of speaking for his party; he’s an intelligent guy. Of course, if he continues to make comments such as he has, he can easily relegate himself to the kid’s table with Limbaugh and Coulter. And I wouldn’t necessarily mind that either. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/105 "2002-12-20T21:18:15Z")
ElvisL1ves: > [@](#): > > No, it tells us that you’d rather believe anyone who will tell you what you want to hear, regardless of any amount of disproof of so many other things that the person has said, and no matter how many other views of the same situation are equally available to you. (sigh) And can you produce any that has “disproven” my statement? Ignore the fact that I said Coulter documented and explained the matter well. Apparently if Coulter said the sun comes up in the East, you’d start looking for it in the West every morning. Is it not true that Starr’s expansion of his investigation to include Monica Lewinsky was deemed by a 3-judge panel to indeed be relevant to the Whitewater scandal? Chaim Mattis Keller ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/106 "2002-12-20T21:34:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*Strom Thurmond … Jesse Helms…David Duke…Sonny Perdue…Tom DeLay…George Bush in South Carolina …Trent Lott … > Okay, take Lott off the list. Does it make a real difference? Is what Clinton said really false? Look at the people whom the Republicans have recently elected as _leaders_. They’re there on that list, most of them. \*\* The Republicans elected _ **David Duke** _??? :eek: Tom DeLay? I had him figured for a slimeball, but a racist? Oooooh, (de)lay those cites on me. George Bush is a racist when he’s in South Carolina? Doesn’t Sonny Perdue sell those tender chickens? I think we need a little more documentation on the bigotry stuff, **Elvis**. ---
**Author:** ![Tygr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df788c/32.png) [@Tygr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tygr)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/107 "2002-12-20T21:45:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*…everybody is tacitly accepted as being fair-minded until they have proven they are not. That proof has to be pretty damn near incontrovertible, obvious, longstanding, and readily apparent, before you can say “X is a racist.” > > If it’s not that way, it’s a witch hunt mentality.\*\* Well, welcome to the PIT, **Scylla**! Where proof is never proof and pre-conceived assumptions never need to be examined! _"SDMB-BBQ PIT: We deal in witch-hunts. Weekly."™_ Honestly, how can we be surprised at Slick Willy’s statements? He’s still attempting to be the leader of the party that will not stop until every American takes it as fact that All Republicans Are Racist [sub](get yer bumper sticker now!)[/sub] Boy, aren’t we glad, though, that they "[don’t have a destruction machine"](http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/04/politics/04CLIN.html)…? :wally ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/108 "2002-12-20T22:01:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astorian \* > **If I were Bill Clinton, and I’d interned with the most contemptible racist in U.S. Senate history (J. William Fulbright, by name), and if I’d given a eulogy for that same repulsive bigot just 6 years ago in which I’d called him a “visionary humanitarian,” I’d think twice before condemning another politician for praising a Senator with a racist past.** Pretty harsh words, there. **The Most** contemptible racist in US Senate History? Was that on the History Channel or something? Maybe you should go [here](http://www.cies.org/about_fulb.htm) and let them know of the repulsive bigot Fulbright. It’s funny that out of all the spewage I’ve heard the past week, I haven’t heard this particular legacy mentioned _once_. Not even this [biographical rant](http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/1777/fulbrigt.htm) against Fulbright mentions the manifesto. Is [The Southern Manifesto](http://azimuth.harcourtcollege.com/history/ayers/chapter28/28.2.principles.html) reprehensible? Of course. Strom Thurmond signed it, right? Doesn’t he rate as “Most Contemptible”? Or John Stennis? Maybe the Navy ought to change the name of the aircraft carrier named after him to the **USS Repulsive Bigot John Stennis**. Or Carl Vinson? We can have a whole **Contemptible Racist** class of aircraft carriers! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/109 "2002-12-20T22:26:32Z")
**UB:** _…Limbaugh and Coulter are discredited idiots. Who, among the thinking public, cares what they say?_ Well, for example, **cmkeller** has spent several posts defending the validity of a work of Coulter’s right here in this very thread. I don’t claim that **Chaim** defends all, or even most, of what Coulter says, but she succeeds in getting at least some of the “thinking public” to listen to her at least some of the time. And they don’t seem to yell for slander lawsuits when she [calls Democrats racist](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=108&ncid=742&e=9&u=/021219/51/2w6kb.html). Mind you, I’m not trying to justify Clinton’s remarks, just pointing out what seems like kind of a double standard in the reactions here. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/110 "2002-12-21T00:41:22Z")
What I can’t get over is how one of the biggest racists and segregationists ever elected to office has a monument in DC! His racist face is on friggin’ Mt Rushmore!!! Yes, I’m talking about that vile piece of crap, Abraham Lincoln! “I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people;” Abraham Lincoln (1809–1865). Political Debates Between Lincoln and Douglas. 1897. ---
**Author:** ![Raymond\_Luxury\_Yacht](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raymond_luxury_yacht/32/4099_2.png) [@Raymond\_Luxury\_Yacht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raymond_Luxury_Yacht)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/111 "2002-12-21T01:59:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Revtim \* > \*\*What I can’t get over is how one of the biggest racists and segregationists ever elected to office has a monument in DC! His racist face is on friggin’ Mt Rushmore!!! Yes, I’m talking about that vile piece of crap, Abraham Lincoln! > > “I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people;” > Abraham Lincoln (1809–1865). Political Debates Between Lincoln and Douglas. 1897. \*\* 😕 This bit of rhetoric aside, **Rev** , do you have any other cite? Exactly how does he qualify as one of the biggest racists ever elected to office? Do you have a formula that quantifies racism in an elected official? Who else is in the top ten? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/112 "2002-12-21T02:39:43Z")
Here’s a couple more cites, all from “Abraham Lincoln (1809–1865). Political Debates Between Lincoln and Douglas” [http://www.bartleby.com/251/](http://www.bartleby.com/251/) “I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and the black races. There is a physical difference between the two which, in my judgment, will probably forbid their ever living together upon the footing of perfect equality; and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position.” “I will also add to the remarks I have made (for I am not going to enter at large upon this subject), that I have never had the least apprehension that I or my friends would marry negroes, if there was no law to keep them from it; but as Judge Douglas and his friends seem to be in great apprehension that they might, if there were no law to keep them from it, I give him the most solemn pledge that I will to the very last stand by the law of the State which forbids the marrying of white people with negroes.” I just find it interesting that Lincoln believed in white supremacy and segregation, and I was pretty much looking for an excuse to bring up, to be honest. I don’t have any reason to believe he was any more a racist than many or most of the people of his time, elected or not. Certainly a bit more racist than most politicians today, I hope. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/113 "2002-12-21T02:56:03Z")
> [@](#): > > the party that will not stop until every American takes it as fact that All Republicans Are Racist Isn’t that as broad a generalization as calling all pubbies racist to begin with? ---
**Author:** ![pakrat22](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2bfe46/32.png) [@pakrat22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pakrat22)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/114 "2002-12-21T03:11:20Z")
Referring back to several mentions of ‘idiots hating Clinton’. I.m registered independent but I’ve never liked Clinton, or Hillary! either for that matter. The man’s a phony and a liar. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Raymond\_Luxury\_Yacht](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raymond_luxury_yacht/32/4099_2.png) [@Raymond\_Luxury\_Yacht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raymond_Luxury_Yacht)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/115 "2002-12-21T03:11:49Z")
“The real issue in this controversy—the one pressing upon every mind—is the sentiment on the part of one class that looks upon the institution of slavery as a wrong, and of another class that does not look upon it as a wrong. The sentiment that contemplates the institution of slavery in this country as a wrong is the sentiment of the Republican party. It is the sentiment around which all their actions, all their arguments, circle, from which all their propositions radiate. They look upon it as being a moral, social, and political wrong; and while they contemplate it as such, they nevertheless have due regard for its actual existence among us, and the difficulties of getting rid of it in any satisfactory way and to all the constitutional obligations thrown about it. Yet, having a due regard for these, they desire a policy in regard to it that looks to its not creating any more danger. They insist that it should, as far as may be, be treated as a wrong; and one of the methods of treating it as a wrong is to make provision that it shall grow no larger. They also desire a policy that looks to a peaceful end of slavery at some time, as being wrong. These are the views they entertain in regard to it as I understand them; and all their sentiments, all their arguments and propositions, are brought within this range. I have said, and I repeat it here, that if there be a man amongst us who does not think that the institution of slavery is wrong in any one of the aspects of which I have spoken, he is misplaced, and ought not to be with us. And if there be a man amongst us who is so impatient of it as a wrong as to disregard its actual presence among us and the difficulty of getting rid of it suddenly in a satisfactory way, and to disregard the constitutional obligations thrown about it, that man is misplaced if he is on our platform. We disclaim sympathy with him in practical action. He is not placed properly with us.” - Abraham Lincoln, October 15, 1858 Thanks for the cite, **Rev**. ---
**Author:** ![Raymond\_Luxury\_Yacht](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raymond_luxury_yacht/32/4099_2.png) [@Raymond\_Luxury\_Yacht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raymond_Luxury_Yacht)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/116 "2002-12-21T03:30:25Z")
Sorry, I forgot to say that I think Lincoln was just trying to get elected. Do you have any cite painting him as a racist after he became President? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/117 "2002-12-21T03:36:55Z")
No prob **jehova68**. Just to be clear, I never meant to imply Lincoln wasn’t against slavery. He obviously was against it, but he clearly wasn’t for equal rights for blacks. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/118 "2002-12-21T03:40:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jehovah68 \* > \*\*Sorry, I forgot to say that I think Lincoln was just trying to get elected. Do you have any cite painting him as a racist after he became President? \*\* Not off the top of my head. You might be right that he was just trying to get elected, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he died with those views. I bet there was a lot of people in the “slavery is wrong but they still are inferior” camp back then. Maybe tomorrow I’ll see if I can find anything. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/119 "2002-12-21T04:14:24Z")
This is rather belated, but it’s factually incorrect so I figured I ought to fix it: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > Well, if I did what he did to a co-worker, I would rightfully be sued for sexual harassment, even if I wasn’t the employer, supervisor or in any way capable of retaliating against her if she were to reject me. Actually, that’s not true. Sexual harrassment is a subset of employment discrimination. To be actionable under the employment discrimination statutes (certainly the federal ones, and all of the state ones I’m aware of), the plaintiff must have suffered an adverse employment decision as a result of the conduct. If you can’t hire, fire, promote, etc., your harrassment could not have resulted in an adverse employment decision. Hence, your co-worker would have no possible claim against you for sexual harrassment. **Airman:** > [@](#): > > minty, I am awestruck that someone such as you, who is very well read and informed in matters of law, could defend Bill Clinton. The man lied under oath. Perjury, as you know, is a crime. I can’t understand how you can justify throwing that under the rug. (a) I’m not convinced he lied under oath. He certainly shaded the truth, and gave a number of non-responsive answers, but I’m not at all certain about any outright lies. And of course, they’d have to be material to the case to be perjury, even if he did lie (although I wouldn’t quibble with the materiality in this instance). (b) Given the ridiculous witch hunt context in which the testimony occurred, I’m willing to cut the guy a little slack on lying about getting his dick sucked. I regard Paula Jones’ lawsuit and Ken Starr’s entire investigation as huge abuses of political power. Perjury’s a crime, you say? Great. So is malicious prosecution. Well, it’s a tort, anyway. © Where did I “throw it under the rug”? He got caught, he got punished, life goes on. Except, of course, for the stark raving loony frothing at the mouth Clinton-hating set. Nice little hobby you’ve got there. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963/120 "2002-12-21T05:37:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\ ***Ace** , when you were a kid and you told a lie, did it matter whether it was a little white lie like where you were last night, or a big one, like “No, ma, I didn’t wreck the car, someone hit it”? \*\* Yes it mattered. (I’m not Ace, but still). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-clinton-wont-you-ever-just-go-away/143963.md?page=7)