# God Dammit Enough With The Fucking Auto-Tune Already **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 19, 2008, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546 "2008-11-19T23:20:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/41 "2008-11-20T12:23:45Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > It’s software or a device that corrects the pitch in human voice so it’s less human and more “precise”. Cher used it on “Believe” which is why her voice sounds so weird. Holy god. Not 12 hours ago I was thinking to myself, “what is that awful sound-effect everybody is using nowadays, and can I blame Cher?” Now I know. Thanks SDMB! ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/42 "2008-11-20T13:12:07Z")
I have no idea why this is tolerated, I really don’t. Back in my day (get off my lawn!) we excoriated Milli Vanilli for trying to pass off someone else’s vocals as their own, but if those vocals are done by Windows, it’s okay? Fuck that shit. If you need Auto Tuning on more than 1% of your notes, get a fucking vocal coach, bitch. Or start getting music written in a key you can handle. (Stance softened for SMG, who’s not and never claimed to be a professional singer, thank gods.) ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/43 "2008-11-20T13:36:01Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > And, oh yeah, I liked Cher’s Believe. So there. Me too, but partly just because it was _different_. I really like the use of unconventional sounds and effects in music, but when overdone anything gets old. Fortunately for me, I don’t like rap, so I haven’t had to endure it like the OP has. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/44 "2008-11-20T13:53:20Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Now, I know what many of you are thinking: “You went to a freakin’ T Pain concert and expected to hear actual performing?” Look, I never liked the guy, but my friend’s boyfriend had a boner for him, so I was dragged to three, yes THREE, T Pain concerts. Two questions: 1. Why did you go back the second time? 2. Why did you go back the third time? That experience sounds T Painful! 😃 (sorry, that was so horrible, I know) ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/45 "2008-11-20T14:30:54Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I have no idea why this is tolerated, I really don’t. Back in my day (get off my lawn!) we excoriated Milli Vanilli for trying to pass off someone else’s vocals as their own, but if those vocals are done by Windows, it’s okay? > > Fuck that shit. If you need Auto Tuning on more than 1% of your notes, get a fucking vocal coach, bitch. Or start getting music written in a key you can handle. > > (Stance softened for SMG, who’s not and never claimed to be a professional singer, thank gods.) Just to be clear, you understand that what’s being criticized in the OP is only tangentially related to pitch correction, right? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/46 "2008-11-20T15:11:00Z")
> [@Freejooky](#): > > Now, all of that aside, I think that people rapping through autotune is a pretty interesting effect and color. Especially in Weezy’s case, he’s applying hard pitch correction to otherwise unpitched vocals, and it’s very weird and interesting to hear the software try to force unpitched, rapped syllables onto coarse pitches - it’s weirdly robotic and glitchy, like a malfunctioning Stephen Hawking voicebox. > [Check out this track from the new mixtape - Wayne comes in at :43, rapping through auto-tune.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY9wPYakO4Y) I agree with this completely; it does SOUND very unique in Waynes case. He uses auto-tune better than anyone else that’s doing it right now (which is everyone). And I thought \*Dedication 3 \*was a perfect follow up to _The Carter 3_. But that’s beside point. He’s doing something that everyone else in the industry is doing. **Royce** ’s new mixtape. **50 Cent**. **Cam’ron**. **Kanye** ’s entire _808’s and Heartbreaks_ album. **TI**. **Wayne** ’s new stuff. 50 Cent and Cam’ron can be forgiven because no one has ever accused them of being ground-breaking, but the rest have no excuse. Like I said, it’s hard enough being a rap fan, having to defend their lyrics or out of booth antics, and this doesn’t make it any easier. Critics of the music now have something else to point to when they argue that rap isn’t art. They’re still wrong, but I understand their dismissal. That being said, I think that the ONLY rapper who should EVER use auto-tune would be Weezy. Or **Jadakiss**. That could be dope too… ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/47 "2008-11-20T15:46:23Z")
I support it in cases where it’s meant to convey a sense of ironicness or disconnectedness, as in “Nails for Breakfast, Tacks for Snacks” by Panic at the Disco. And fortunately I don’t have to listen to non-intropspective stuff if I don’t want to. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/48 "2008-11-20T16:10:47Z")
never mind ---
**Author:** ![jali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@jali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jali)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/49 "2008-11-20T16:42:34Z")
> [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > Wayne is going to remembered as one of the greatest to ever rap, and his auto-tune phase will be remembered as his lowest point. You’ve never heard of \*\*Rakim, Biggy, Jay-Z, Eminem, Big Daddy Kane, WuTang, Public Enemy, A Tribe Called Quest, The Lost Boys, KRS-1, NAS, DMX, Rah Diggah, Jean Grey, Heavy D, Big Pun, LL… \*\*there’s a very long list of excellent spitters - these are just off the top - you really believe that \*this \*guy will be known as one of the greatest? ---
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/50 "2008-11-20T17:50:29Z")
> [@jali](#): > > You’ve never heard of \*\*Rakim, Biggy, Jay-Z, Eminem, Big Daddy Kane, WuTang, Public Enemy, A Tribe Called Quest, The Lost Boys, KRS-1, NAS, DMX, Rah Diggah, Jean Grey, Heavy D, Big Pun, LL… \*\*there’s a very long list of excellent spitters - these are just off the top - you really believe that \*this \*guy will be known as one of the greatest? Of course I’ve heard of everyone of those. And yes, his name will be right up there. I did not say he was better than any of them, I said he was in the same league. On a sidenote, I would substitute Big L for DMX, The Lost Boys, Rah, and LL. While all four of them brought something new to the scene, none of them were particularly nice with their lyrics, certainly not on the level of Big or Rakim\*. \*This is generous. I would love to hear how in the hell Rah fucking Diggah made your list. I’m pretty sure her whole career is because she slept with Busta. Spliff Star has to have gotten his start the same way too. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/51 "2008-11-20T17:58:09Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > A reknowned opera singer, [Inva Mula](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inva_Mula) (credited as Inva Mulla Tchako) sung the part. The references I found differ on what was done with her voice - the [IMDb trivia section](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119116/trivia) says that she claimed a human voice could not jump through the hoops Besson required (assuming for parts of the latter half of the song, as the first half is an aria from Lucia de Lammermoor), so he had her sing the notes separately and put them together electronically. The Wiki article says that in the special edition’s commentary, it was said that “her voice was not digitally altered”. I’m not sure where the truth lies. Thanks for the info. I tried to find her singing it in her normal voice, but no dice. That was one of the sweetest examples of the human voice I have ever heard. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/52 "2008-11-20T18:29:09Z")
Thank you \*\*FreeByAnyMeans \*\*and **jali** , I was going to comment on the same line. I was all set to agree with the OP (well, I still do) but damn that one line just killed the thread. I mean Lil Wayne seriously? Basically all the TRL/“sucka free” Mtv shit, strikes me as what old, rich, white guys think Hip Hop should be- dumbed down, cash obsesses, mysoginistic, and violent. That is \*not \*what Hip Hop is all about but because the marketing reps say so thats the face it gets. You can argue that obviously there is a market for that, but my problem is that the gate keepers(record execs) _only_ market that. Pisses me off to no end. Kayne is good, but not great; I don’t know if his ego is an act or not, but it loses him alot of props in my book. He does still carry alot of props for the Bush/Katrina thing though. **STT** , If you like Kayne and Wayne, might I suggest **Danny!** (D.Swain) or **Lupe Fiasco**. Similar styles, but the level in talent in lyrics and beats is worlds apart. On top of jali’s list of classics I’ll add a few favorites of my own; some old, some new: Arrested Development Atmosphere Blue Scholars Blueprint Brother Ali Buck 65 Bus Driver Common Danny! Digable Planets Dose-One Flobots Fugees Gnarls Barkely Guru Immortal Technique Jedi Mind Tricks Kool Keith Living Legends Lupe Fiasco MF Doom Mos Def Pharoahe Monch Rass Kass Sage Francis Saul Williams Talib Kweli The Coup …I could do this all day. Between the two list I would say Kayne fit in there, as well: Busta, Rass, Gza, (I haven’t heard enough of Royce to say). Wayne, Pain, Fiddy and Diddy, however, suck. Just like a autotune/vocoder, marketing does not equal talent. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/53 "2008-11-20T18:43:18Z")
> [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > On a sidenote, I would substitute Big L for DMX, Damn! I forgot about L. Okay, but how about we keep X and nix Heavy D? Yeah DMX is “cash obsesses, mysoginistic, and violent” like I was ranting about, but the dark, grittiness of it makes it work. Bone Thugs have to be on here too, a good and really unique sound. Daz and Kurupt rank in on my all time list also. ETA: Double damn- I forgot one of my top favorites: **Illogic**. Check out the original of his “1000 whispers”; best hiphop song EVAR! ---
**Author:** ![Freejooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba8739/32.png) [@Freejooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freejooky)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/54 "2008-11-20T18:48:16Z")
> [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > Wrong. The most overrated MC of all time is hands down Nasir Jones. > > I am no latecomer to Lil Wayne; in fact the best part of his music is that you can hear him grow from a mildly talented teenager in the late nineties to the lyrical monster that he is now. Besides a few under appreciated guys like the GZA, Ras Kass and Royce Da 5’9", there really isn’t anyone who can compete with his lyrics and the way he turns a phrase. > > And cause it’s my thread, I’m going to declare this hijack over. I won. Thanks for playing. > > 😃 I agree with this 110%. Following Wayne since Hot Boys and his one line on “#1 stunna” (“you know how slow the new rolls royce be”) has been absolutely fascinating. I think it was “The block is hot” that I really started to notice him and wonder if he’d stick around, but it was stuff like “fireman” and the first _Dedication_ that was the turning point, I think. He’s grown into one of the weirdest, most interesting, and flat-out greatest mc’s working. And Nasir Jones…holy shit, how do you get endless acclaim out of “the world is yours?” I don’t even think it’s _Illmatic_ at this point that he’s coasting on! Truly the most overrated mc of all time. ---
**Author:** ![Freejooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba8739/32.png) [@Freejooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freejooky)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/55 "2008-11-20T18:49:32Z")
> [@tds1273](#): > > Thank you \*\*FreeByAnyMeans \*\*and **jali** , I was going to comment on the same line. > > I was all set to agree with the OP (well, I still do) but damn that one line just killed the thread. I mean Lil Wayne seriously? Basically all the TRL/“sucka free” Mtv shit, strikes me as what old, rich, white guys think Hip Hop should be- dumbed down, cash obsesses, mysoginistic, and violent. That is \*not \*what Hip Hop is all about but because the marketing reps say so thats the face it gets. You can argue that obviously there is a market for that, but my problem is that the gate keepers(record execs) _only_ market that. Pisses me off to no end. > > Kayne is good, but not great; I don’t know if his ego is an act or not, but it loses him alot of props in my book. He does still carry alot of props for the Bush/Katrina thing though. > > **STT** , If you like Kayne and Wayne, might I suggest **Danny!** (D.Swain) or **Lupe Fiasco**. Similar styles, but the level in talent in lyrics and beats is worlds apart. > > On top of jali’s list of classics I’ll add a few favorites of my own; some old, some new: > > Arrested Development > Atmosphere > Blue Scholars > Blueprint > Brother Ali > Buck 65 > Bus Driver > Common > Danny! > Digable Planets > Dose-One > Flobots > Fugees > Gnarls Barkely > Guru > Immortal Technique > Jedi Mind Tricks > Kool Keith > Living Legends > Lupe Fiasco > MF Doom > Mos Def > Pharoahe Monch > Rass Kass > Sage Francis > Saul Williams > Talib Kweli > The Coup > > …I could do this all day. Between the two list I would say Kayne fit in there, as well: Busta, Rass, Gza, (I haven’t heard enough of Royce to say). > > Wayne, Pain, Fiddy and Diddy, however, suck. Just like a autotune/vocoder, marketing does not equal talent. Ugh, no. Just no. I thought backpackers died off in '02? 😉 Get beyond “lollipop,” seriously. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/56 "2008-11-20T18:58:09Z")
> [@Freejooky](#): > > Ugh, no. Just no. I thought backpackers died off in '02? 😉 > > Get beyond “lollipop,” seriously. Nah, just got a little hungry. “I heard a few heads say that hip hop is dead No it’s not, it’s just malnourished and under fed” -Geo, Blue Scholars ---
**Author:** ![Freejooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba8739/32.png) [@Freejooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freejooky)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/57 "2008-11-20T19:01:14Z")
> [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > Of course I’ve heard of everyone of those. And yes, his name will be right up there. I did not say he was better than any of them, I said he was in the same league. > > On a sidenote, I would substitute Big L for DMX, The Lost Boys, Rah, and LL. While all four of them brought something new to the scene, none of them were particularly nice with their lyrics, certainly not on the level of Big or Rakim\*. > > \*This is generous. I would love to hear how in the hell Rah fucking Diggah made your list. I’m pretty sure her whole career is because she slept with Busta. Spliff Star has to have gotten his start the same way too. 😃 RAH DIGGAH!?!??! :eek::eek::eek::eek: Somebody start a new hip hop thread please. ---
**Author:** ![Freejooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba8739/32.png) [@Freejooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freejooky)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/58 "2008-11-20T19:05:26Z")
> [@tds1273](#): > > Nah, just got a little hungry. > > “I heard a few heads say that hip hop is dead > No it’s not, it’s just malnourished and under fed” > -Geo, Blue Scholars God, if ONLY they got a little hungry! What backpackers got instead was complacent and lazy, and then suddenly there were major label records coming out that were twice as weird and creative as anything from the undieground. I mean, “A milli” alone singelhandedly laps the entire recorded output of Anticon, Rhymesayers, and Def Jux _combined_, man. The turning point for me was Ghost’s _Pretty Toney_ in '04 - the same year that Def Jux was releasing stuff like S.A. Smash. You could practically _hear_ the entire industry change right in the middle of Trife’s verse on “Biscuits.” ---
**Author:** ![Bongmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Bongmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bongmaster)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/59 "2008-11-20T19:09:31Z")
One thing I wanted to point out is that Autotune wasn’t necessarily designed to be used it the way that some artists are using it. So its not really really Autotun which is to blame but the artists that “abuse” its power. Used properly (and subtly) it is a powerful studio tool. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546/60 "2008-11-20T19:11:01Z")
> [@tds1273](#): > > Damn! I forgot about L. Okay, but how about we keep X and nix Heavy D? Yeah DMX is “cash obsesses, mysoginistic, and violent” like I was ranting about, but the dark, grittiness of it makes it work. > > Bone Thugs have to be on here too, a good and really unique sound. > > Daz and Kurupt rank in on my all time list also. I am the OP, and I condone this hijack. First, there is a HUGE difference between the shit you hear from Wayne on MTV and the stuff on his mixtapes. I LOATHE his singles and club songs, but lyrically, there is not anyone out right now who is on his level. For real. And you’re not going to like this, but 99% of all your top lyricists list is back-packer stuff. Now, I’m from Duluth MN. All college radio up here plays is Brother Ali, Atmosphere, stuff like that. To me, and this is my personal opinion, when you listen to a white guy from St Paul rap, the hunger is lacking, and it’s that hunger that is what makes rap music so compelling. I’m not saying that white people can’t make good rap music, I’m saying people from the 'burbs can’t make good rap music. It’s impossible. IMHO. As far as the consumerism and violence and misogyny in Weezy and other mainstream artists stuff, I see all that as beside the point. It’s all about the turn of a phrase; the cleverness and out-of-the-box thinking needed to come up with some of their lines. 50 Cent does not have this (anymore, when he was poor, he sounded like a pitbull on the mic. Give him a few dollars and he becomes Ja Rule, but that’s neither here nor there.) Also, I don’t like the implication that because I like Weezy I must like Puff or Fifty or any other “mainstream” artist. There’s good rap music and there’s bad. 90% is bad. As far as your list goes, I would agree with Kurupt, Guru, Ceelo, Monch, and Rassy. I would add Killer Mike also. The rest are all the same. Saying the same things the same ways. Except Kool Keith, but the market for songs about space dinosaurs and haircuts from the future is only so large. (If you havn’t already, get an album by The Analog Brothers called Pimp To Eat. It’s Kool Keith, Ice T, Mark Live, Black Silver, and Pimp Rex and you will probably love it.) And I will say that if rap music is around in 20 years, it will sound like Saul Williams. That man transcends genres and categories. Hand’s down the best thing to happen to rap/hip-hop since Kool Herc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-dammit-enough-with-the-fucking-auto-tune-already/473546.md?page=4)