He’s right. Google Lil Wayne’s Sportscenter freestyle and tell me that sounds anything like his singles. Or Amillie. Amille is fire. Every bar.
Or listen to this.
What, you expect a girl to be educated to join in a Pit pile now? 
Sure, I get it. And I’m not a rap fan or afficianado, so the specific references are going over my head. But I do shop at “urban” discount clothing stores, and my gods, the crap they’re playing! Usually when I notice auto-tune as an effect, there’s also subtler auto-tune to fix lazy singing. I’m certain that producers feel as long as they’re firing up the auto-tune up in post-production, they might as well fix the flats there as well and not pay for more studio recording time.
I’m also exposed to just enough young ladies [del]screeching[/del] singing pop songs, and there’s auto-tune all over the fucking place, and not as specialized effects, but to make them all sound like Aguilera. Hell, I’m pretty sure even Aguilera needs auto-tune to sound like Aguilera these days. Fucking scales and super human glissandos all over the fucking place, man. Do not want.
I’ve heard probably every Lil Wayne song since The Carter. Lil Wayne has been very popular in DC for a long time so I’m constantly inundated with that nonsense.
FTR, Nas is my favorite MC. And no, it’s not just because of Illmatic. IWW, Stillmatic, Lost Tapes, and God’s Son are all solid albums and all his other albums are at least half awesome. Nas – like other MCs in his league – makes songs with concepts, stories, and thoughtful insight about the state of the world. Oh, and he’s used pitch-correction as well . . . only in a clever way that I’ve never heard any other MC replicate.
Lil Wayne’s whole gimmick is tired similes that often don’t make any sense. On A Millie (one of the most annoying beats I’ve ever heard) he likens himself to a venereal disease, for fuck’s sake.
“I’m black and white like a bear so I’m polar” = WTF? There are better examples but I can’t be bothered to peruse lyrics by somebody who brags about being addicted to cough syrup and totes a guitar he doesn’t know how to play.
I also didn’t know that OPs had the power to selectively approve hijacks. So on that note, fuck your thread.
Change isn’t always for the better ya know?
I can’t speak for the beats, but what is the big deal about the rhymes in A Millie or Biscuit? They might have a smooth flow, but any MC could handle that(except maybe No Limit’s /short of Mystikal they were the worst; Cash Money is #2 though).
Where’s the challenge in the rhymes, where’s the creativity? Where’s the depth?
Can’t honestly say I’ve ever actually heard the Trife verse but the lyrics are completely interchangeable with any hundreds of rappers.
Speaking of Def Jux; I’ll see your Pretty Toney and raise you an “I Phantom”
Take any random name on my list(or also Illogic, Cool Calm Pete, Mr Lif, Haiku D’etat, Del, Acey) I’ll put up a verse that blows “A millie” or “Biscuits” out of the water and sinks them in a volcano.
Cash Money is to Anticon, Rhymesayers, and Def Jux
as
Kinkade is to Dali, Rene’, and Escher
^Some people just don’t get it, man.
Or maybe we don’t. After all, we’re just “backpackers.” :rolleyes:
This too, shall pass.
I recall for you the horrid decade know as the '80s, and the “Casio Hand Clap”.
clap…clap…clapclapclapclapclap…yeah, feel the beat, I can push this button all day…clapclapclapclap
You’re right in two respects.
1: there is definitely a difference between Wayne’s battle style lyrics (which have always driven underground hip-hop, not that Wayne would be described as underground, simply drawing a parallel) and Slick Rick style story telling. Rick at least had a different story to tell every time, Nas just recycles his stories and frames them different ways. (I will say though that he did win the battle between him and Jay-Z with the Stillmatic album, which to me was way beyond the skills he displayed on Illmatic. They are both classic albums, it’s just hes put out so much garbage album filler material besides those and a couple tracks on God’s Son.)
As far as him comparing himself to a venereal disease, I thought it was funny as hell. He’s also said “I irritate you pussies like a yeast infection”. While most mainstream artists would NEVER say anything like this, and have to insert “no homo” after any line even remotely self depreciating, Wayne is not scared to say whatever he wants however he wants. When attacked for pictures of him kissing his mentor and adopted father, he responded by saying that Baby had been there for him his whole life, had given him whatever he needed when he needed it, and therefore why wouldn’t he kiss his daddy. Why don’t you kiss yours? He’s different. He’s himself, for better or worse, Codeine addictions and shitty dreams of rock and roll stardom and all. And that’s commendable.
and 2: I do have the power to declare a hijack over, cause I said so. And I’m a sore winner 
*I was actually being sarcastic, but sarcasm often fails on the tubes, so take it as an attack. I’m cool with that too.
No worries mate, I get it. I’m just sick of hearing the same things over and over and over. 99% of underground “backpack” rap is white kids crying cause they can’t get a deal. That no one appreciates them and what they do. They are the Holden Caufields of music, and I find it annoying as shit.
That being said, I still really enjoy random tracks from random artists. “Things That Hate Us” by Atmosphere. Lots of stuff from The Demigodz, Rise, C Rayz Wallz, Apathy. The aforementioned Kool Keith. The list goes on. I’m just saying that lots of kids put this stuff up on a pedestal and say that it is “real hip-hop” and anything that sells records is fake. This is bullshit. The only consolation is that people usually grow out of that “woe-is-me” attitude.
Yeah, this - when backpack stuff blew up (the late nineties into the very beginning of the '00’s), mainstream hip hop was horrid - stuff like Ja Rule and later Fiddy was just tearing up the charts and it actually felt like the end of the world. When The Cold Vein (still one of the top-5 records of this decade, period) dropped in 2001, it felt like a true revolution. And records like Doom’sOperation: Doomsday, Quasimoto’s The Unseen, El-P’s Fantastic Damage, a lot of the Anticon stuff, Aceyalone’s solo stuff, J-5’s Quality Control, the Deltron record, Fatlip’s solo record, even the Rawkus refugees like Sir Menelik/Scaramanga and Black Star-era Talib/Mos/Hi-Tek/Shawn J./etc. - that stuff just felt truly revolutionary like straight punk rock compared to the stuff that was moving units via BET. And a lot of those records are still great - but when the guys weren’t looking, mainstream rap swung in the opposite direction and suddenly there was no big, dumb machine to rage against. Instead of evolving or really buckling down, undie rap became its own insular thing and the quality just went down. Guys got complacent and their white audiences got indiscriminate, and next thing you know there’s been like 10 more Atmosphere records and they’re increasingly shoddy.
What really gets me excited now are the guys that are weirder than the mainstream but aren’t aspiring to have anything to do with the indie scene - people like the Cool Kids, Kid Cudi, Vitamin D and Jake One…
Fair enough about giving you undue credit for Puff and Fifty, low blow I’m sure. Fuck, I forgot about Ja Rule. Not forgot to put him on any list mind you, just forgot about him. Thinking back to those days now, what ever happened to Shyne? I actually liked his first album. If you like TI look for ‘2 Glock 9s’ with Beenie on the Shaft soundtrack, that was a pretty good one.
I think part of the trouble is sample size here. I can’t honestly say I’ve given Wayne’s discography much spin, but I just burned out on that whole label, long ago. Same goes for Bad Boy and No Limit. Likewise, Death Row, with some classics just kept to the same formula and doesn’t hold up.
I know you say the same about the backpackers, fair’s fair I guess, however, just off the top of my head, I’ll pull Atmosphere’s “Woman with Tattooed Hands”, Aesop’s “Harbor is Yours”. You are not going to find that type of story telling on a typical Cash Money.
I guess it’s also just a matter of taste. I like the grimey stuff too. But some times I also want actual stories, some(most)times I want politics, sometimes I want the bragadocio, sometimes I want the introspective. With most of the names on the list, you can get all that on one album.
Not just lyrics, but beats too; there just needs to be some variety. You can’t get the country sound of Buck 65 or the beatnik sound of Haiku D’etat on just any rap album.
And it’s most definetly not all the same on that list. I don’t think anyone in there right mind could qualify Immortal Technique or Vinnie Paz as not being hungry on the mic or sounding like a couple of white college kids from the 'burbs.
Mos, Talib, Common, AD, Planets, Fugees; come on, those are just classics that can bridge all gaps.
Part of my grudge with the major labels is the way that Monch got dicked around for so long with his second release.
Saul Williams- on that we can agree. He is just a pure artist.
For funny, dirty raps give Akinyele or Afroman(also very underrated) a try.
Slug seems like the “backpacker’s” version of Lil Wayne in this thread (I think I died a little typing that btw), but come on, his latest stuff has been gold(pun intended). And his free album, Strickly Leakage, has a god damned Texas Hold’em song on it (What They Sitting For?); how do you not love that?
Speaking of Sportscenter, not a freestyle, but I give you: Pharoahe Monch’s Official. Those are ESPY worthy lines.
Illogic’s 1000 Whispers is lyrical perfection. The original version with The Who’s “Won’t Get Fooled Again” sample, is easily my all time favorite track.
And Freejooky, you like the weird stuff right? I challenge you to find a weirder album that Dose-One and Boom Bip’s Circle. Granted, you have to be able to deal with Dose’s voice, but that album is one hell of a piece of art. I call it prog-hop (ooph, maybe not)
Damn, there went a day. Good to see a lively hiphop thread on the SDMB. I don’t know if it ironic or appropriate that it broke out in the pit. Both?
Backpacks or Bling-bling; a debate for sure, but what ever works for you.
I just can’t go away though with out proper respect to hometown heros(9-8-double 1-8) Blue Scholars. If you haven’t got a copy ofBayani- do it. now. Perfect hiphop.
Well, I personally think it’s kind of fun to see Auto-Tune being used in ways that it wasn’t initially intended to be used, and really pushing it in different directions. That said, I agree the synth-voice autotune effect has become so ubiquitous that it’s become pretty annoying.
To tds1273, I think the problem here is that you keep bringing up Cash Money/No Limit in relationship to Wayne. yes Wayne came from the Cash Money camp, and yes, Cash Money* and No Limit together destroyed a lot of the respect that the South had worked so hard to build on the backs of guys like Scarface and Outkast and The Goodie Mob. it should be stated though that the Lil Wayne of the late nineties bears only a passing resemblance to the Lil Wayne of 2008.
I cannot think of another rap artist that has grown by leaps and bounds in his delivery and lyrics. He went from being another run of the mill Southern rap artist to someone who I and many others consider one of the greatest of our generation.
*Cash Money, in it’s hey day, made horrible, carbon copy rap. But almost every artist from that camp went on to make great records. BG is good, if not great, Juvenile has never made a weak album, and Lil Wayne is doing what he does. Shit, even Young Buck went on to save G-Unit from being complete jokes, if only for a matter of months.
God. All this talk about 50 Cent and Nas and Puff Daddy has me feeling all icky inside. Ima go listen to some Danielson Familie and chill 
Fair enough. Like I said, could be sample size, though, that does goes both ways.
I think my frustration has less to do with Lil Wayne and more to do with the lack of play given to “socially conscious” rap.
Putting my tinfoil hat on for a minute, there just is something sinister about CEOs(so, so disconnected from their target audience) deciding that the public would be better served by T-Pain and Soulja Boy than Talib or Saul Williams. It’s frustrating when it is the Clear Channel and Viacoms executives who ultimately get to decide who gets to benefit from the marketing and airplay.
To me it’s like a parent(or now schools even) feeding their kids only fast food. I like me a McRib or Jack in the Box just fine, but when that is the primary source of sustenance, it is not healthy for the students, or in this case society.
Feel free to disagree, but I think there is a lot of truth in the second chorus on Lupe’s Dumb it Down.
Of course, that is starting to balance with the internet. And if Lil Wayne does have as much talent you say that is a step too. The content doesn’t always have to be “deep”, but if he is taking things in the direction of more creative metaphors and complicated rhyming patterns, and just challenging the younger rap fans and rappers to put more thought into their lines and advance the art, then that is alright by me.
I also saw that Daz and Kurupt went to Cash Money; if not for two songs so far. Hell, I didn’t even realize they were working together again. I’m going to have some catching up to do. Including giving Wayne a fairer shot. Does he have anything underground-ish(more political or abstract type) that I should start with?
Here is site I like. I recommend that (free!) Almost Fameless mix tape download on the right of the page. Look for song “Feels so Right” by Rennessaince; the last verse is probably my favorite ever by a female emcee.
Of course, voice distortion has been used for quite some time now by various artists. Helios Creed’s been doing it for decades, for example.
Oh, that’s what that damned infernal effect is.
Seriously, why is this shit so “in” right now? The Wiki page for Auto-Tune says that some artists use this shit to neutralize human error, but it really just makes them sound like robots. Why is this supposed to be appealing?
I can see why it makes sense in, say, techno songs, which are not supposed to sound like something that humans made. But in any other context…ugh.
Seconded.
Oh, come on! No Del tha Funkee Homosapien? No Deltron? No Hieroglyphics?
Seriously. Some of these idiots throw around that word like it’s an automatic conviction. Shit, maybe we just like our music to have some kind of real meaning. All the talent and skill in the world is bullshit if you’re just going to brag about how many bitches you slap.
Well, no shit, when you define a genre by its lack of commercial success, you’re going to group in a lot of losers recording tracks in their grandma’s basement with a lot of visionaries who have something real to say that Big Ass & Pimple Face In The Morning on Hot 97.2 aren’t ready to hear.
:dubious: I don’t see any innovation in mainstream rap. The paragons of mainstream rap quoted in this thread are still talking about the same dumb shit as Ja Rule and 50 Cent did. (ETA: To be fair, though, I stopped listening to the mainstream stations a few years ago. But the reason I haven’t gone back is that every time I check them out, I’m disappointed again. I did like Nas’s N.I.G.G.E.R., though.) That said, I’ll check out the names you mentioned here (Cool Kids, Kid Cudi, etc.)
Seriously. Anyone who thinks Immortal Technique doesn’t sound hungry on the mic hasn’t heard him tell the story of the gangbanger who accidentally raped his own mother. That is some shit that will leave you shaking.
Well, used in the normal way, it doesn’t make people sound like robots. In fact, I’d be willing to bet you’ve heard this effect way more than you think you have because if you use it in a subtle way, it just sounds like the singer hit all the notes. They even sometimes leave some minor errors to make the performance sound a little more convincing.
What we’re talking about here is cranking this thing up to 11 to get a specific sound of it. Doing this is deliberately taking it to an extreme. Most of the time it’s not used for that so it’s more or less invisible to the listener.
Sure, that’s true of most innovations. Certainly record scratching was an unintended consequence for the industry but that worked out well (in the 80s/90s). Same with the original beatboxes. But we’ve definately jumped the shark with the way Autotune gets used these days.