# God damn it, Democrats! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 28, 2016, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592 "2016-06-28T05:08:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/61 "2016-06-28T22:16:56Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > Personally, I don’t believe that Clinton would work better with the Republicans than Sanders would. It’s also fair to say that this isn’t an argument I have heard much … [snip] We know for an absolute fact Republicans aren’t going to work with The Donald … ha ha, get it … That’s a joke, son, lighten up a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/62 "2016-06-29T21:11:21Z")
You know what’s progressive? Policy that reduces suffering. You know what’s not progressive? Empty words that bear no relation to policy initiatives. When the smoke filled rooms disappeared, the party platform became meaningless. Nobody has ever cared about it the following year. All it does is provide an opportunity for the opposition to denounce you as an extremist crackpot. My preference is to win on the substance and hand my opponents victory on the symbolism. I praise the crafters of the 2016 Democratic platform for their ultra-progressive stance – winning elections. If you want to push for policy X, get Hillary to back it. Because empirically, Presidents typically pursue most of their campaign promises. “Presidents usually try to enact the policies they advocate during the campaign.” > **[Contrary to popular belief, politicians often keep campaign promises](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/contrary-to-popular-belief-politicians-often-keep-campaign-promises/2012/01/19/gIQAAgq6BQ_story.html)** > > Everyone knows that politicians make all kinds of crazy promises during elections that they jettison as soon as they take office. At least everyone thinks they know that. But it’s not true. > **[Campaign Promises | Washington Monthly](https://washingtonmonthly.com/2012/01/02/campaign-promises/)** > > What they say is how they'll govern. (But platforms don’t equate to candidate advocacy.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/63 "2016-06-29T21:47:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > OK, just for instance, lets take the $15 minimum wage. It is not so much the thing itself but the _intent_ of the thing. What are we trying to accomplish? To relieve the burden on our less affluent citizens, obviously. To put money in the hands of people who will spend it, a little less obvious. The kind of intent that ought to gladden the shriveled hearts of corporate America, or at least those smart enough to realize that a consumer economy depends upon consumers having money. _Très_ duh, _mais non?_ > > Can we sell it? Obviously, we can sell it to people who are working full time for less. And, of course, there are a lot of people who don’t see it that way, who only see it as drastically raising the pay of laggards and lay-abouts. Lets just suppose, for the sake of our hypothetical, that theres so many of them, selling the program becomes impossible. Not saying it is, just saying “what if?”. > > The\* intent\* is to make life easier for our people, with the added benefit of spurring our economy. Is there another way, one that might be more attractive? Well, ok, how about subsidized child care, make it easier for parents to work and be rewarded? Also, _leaving_ more money in their hands rather than _putting_ more there. Selling benefits for crumb-snatching rug rats is an easier sell. So, maybe. > > How would we know, who can we ask? Academic economics is one source, but is often questionable. As time has gone, the progressives have a stronger case to make, social democracy is functional, and in many ways, more efficient than rat-race based economics. But academic economics is not something divorced from politics, one cannot embrace an economic opinion as fact. How many economic academics are funded by people like the Koch Brothers, who already know to a certainty what the truth is, and seek intelligent persons to teach it. Anyway, utterly reliable expertise is not available. > > We are going to be guessing, to some degree or another. So, if we can’t have both subsidized child care and a major advance in minimum wage, can we cobble together a bit of both, a compromise we can sell? And if we can sell it, and gain the power advantage necessary to implement it, can we adjust it if it falters? > > Yes, we can. If we win. If we lose, we can’t do much of anything except cuss and spit teeth. Don’t say “$15 an hour or bust!” say, “We should raise the minimum wage!” Don’t say “Medicare for all!” say “We may need to expand and adjust the ACA”. Of course, we have every intention to doing exactly that, but we _may_ need to! Because we already need to, but no reason to bore people with lengthy explanations. Shhhhh… Ixnay on talking about the ecretsay anplay!!! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/64 "2016-06-29T22:10:45Z")
No problem. So long as the plan is simple enough for _our_ folks to understand it, but not so simple that the other guys catch on, we’re good. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/65 "2016-06-29T22:16:19Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Why on earth would anyone think Clinton can get things done that Sanders can’t? Because for all his progressive ideas, Sanders hasn’t ever accomplished much. It takes a true chauvinist to support a candidate who has done next to nothing in his political career, however long it might be. It takes something close to a Trumpsky idiot to believe that such a candidate will suddenly figure out all the levers of power and get anything accomplished - anything at all. HRC has accomplished shitloads specifically by being an accomplished and connected politician who knows how to make things happen, even unpopular things. And if the choice is Hitler, Professor Irwin Corey or Clinton II, for good or bad, that’s no real choice at all. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/66 "2016-06-29T22:27:39Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > What part of “get some of what you want” did the progressives here get again? What part of “work with the moderates” have they offered? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/67 "2016-06-29T22:32:16Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > No problem. So long as the plan is simple enough for _our_ folks to understand it, but not so simple that the other guys catch on, we’re good. So all we need to do is claim the Muslims are holding down the minimum wage? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/68 "2016-07-01T18:59:45Z")
For a more balanced and less frothing view of the creation of the Democratic platform look [here](http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-democrats-approved-platform-draft-with-sanders-imprint-2016-6). > [@](#): > > “We lost some but we won some,” said James Zogby, a Sanders supporter on the panel. “We got some great stuff in the platform that has never been in there before.” Added Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn., a Sanders ally: “We’ve made some substantial moves forward.” Overall it looks like while there were some disagreements both sides worked together and compromised. Exactly the way these things are suppose to work. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/69 "2016-07-01T19:25:58Z")
The problem with just saying that voters want “change” is that they all want different things in different ways. At one point the Republicans were trying to point out that the majority of people were unhappy with Obamacare. Well, a fair number of those people were unhappy because it didn’t go far enough. They didn’t want to repeal it back to nothing, they wanted Single Payer. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/70 "2016-07-01T20:04:54Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > Sanders lost, Clinton won. The far-left progressive lost, the center-left moderate won. > > Guess who gets to pick the platform – the one the voters selected. Guess who might just stay home, on Election Day.:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/71 "2016-07-01T20:09:20Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Guess who might just stay home, on Election Day.:dubious: Only if they are shitty progressives or were never going to vote anyways. Stop acting like staying home is a viable option for anyone who doesn’t equally support either side. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/72 "2016-07-01T20:17:04Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Guess who might just stay home, on Election Day.:dubious: Would that be you dummy? What prize do I win? Everyone should stay home. That’ll teach them. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/73 "2016-07-01T20:24:51Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Guess who might just stay home, on Election Day.:dubious: BoDiofTrexit doesn’t flow trippingly off the tongue. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/74 "2016-07-02T11:35:57Z")
Good job pissing on the people Hillary needs, if she’s gonna win in November. I could just vote on other issues, & put in a write-in under the Presidential contest. For the Lone Ranger. The Party made no concessions, why should I? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/75 "2016-07-02T12:05:15Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > The Party made no concessions, why should I? As usual, you have absolutely no clue what you’re yammering about. [Cite.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07/01/democrats-release-draft-of-platform-with-shifts-to-left-on-death-penalty-abortion-taxes/) ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/76 "2016-07-02T20:52:56Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > QFT! > > I would expand it even further: > > Every member of a group of humans larger than, like, four has to learn to accept the reality that other good faith opinions exist about our complicated world. Not everyone who disagrees with you is evil or a shill. I read that as every human OLDER than, like four…and I was going to say it takes a bit longer than that, but you should understand it before you hit voting age. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/77 "2016-07-02T20:54:03Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Guess who might just stay home, on Election Day.:dubious: Mr. Trump thanks you. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/78 "2016-07-02T21:19:12Z")
If Hillary won’t let me have cake and ice cream for breakfast I’m gonna vote for Trump who will force feed me liver and Brussels sprouts (which I absolutely HATE) three times a day . . . that’ll teach 'em! Did IQs just drop sharply [DEL][COLOR=“Black”]while I was away[/DEL][/COLOR] since the last election? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/79 "2016-07-02T22:54:35Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Did IQs just drop sharply [DEL][COLOR=“Black”]while I was away[/DEL][/COLOR] since the last election? > > CMC fnord! No. They were never high to begin. I _think_ one can get over 200 (or whatever arbitrary number is top now). There’s a number of absolute curve killers offsetting the single digit masses. That’s the only way to explain 100 being average. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592/80 "2016-07-03T18:07:15Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Good job pissing on the people Hillary needs, if she’s gonna win in November. > > I could just vote on other issues, & put in a write-in under the Presidential contest. > For the Lone Ranger. > > The Party made no concessions, why should I? > [@Frank](#): > > As usual, you have absolutely no clue what you’re yammering about. [Cite.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07/01/democrats-release-draft-of-platform-with-shifts-to-left-on-death-penalty-abortion-taxes/) But, will it transform into action? Decades of DNC apathy make me very doubtful of that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damn-it-democrats/758592.md?page=5)