God damn it, Democrats!

I think there’s often that kind of thing going on with the Democrats, especially with Clinton herself, but these platform changes are less about liberal vs. moderate than elites vs. the activist base. The party mainstream is genuinely pro-Israel, genuinely pro-free trade, and genuinely pro-fracking(to an extent). The lefties on the other hand are just listening to whoever complains the loudest and sounds aggrieved enough and also agrees to back the interests of the other members of the coalition.

However, I just have to note again that Clinton is lying through her teeth about TPP and everyone with two brain cells has to know it. The platform fight over TPP only further proves it.

Thanks, Rick. As I said, that headline wasn’t exactly making it easy on you…:wink:

It’s my default AND there is a reason! You post garbage links all the damned time, from garbage websites.

In other words, websites with which you disagree.

I don’t know enought about this to have a dog in this fight, but it seems to me that most of this is complaining about are provisions that protect the status quo rather than things that the TPP will actually change. So they seem to be less problems that will be created by the TPP and more problems that the TPP is unfortunately not going to fix. Absent a TPP, will Malaysia suddenly decide to stop blocking internet?

What part of “get some of what you want” did the progressives here get again?

Sloppy, lazy, breathless, idiotic websites that make no effort to fact check. You post from the left’s equivalent to Breitbart. It’s embarrassing.

No, they are, in fact, garbage links from garbage websites, which are repeatedly shown to be misleading, exaggerations, or lies. You are perhaps the most untrustworthy poster in political threads here, and you’ve overcome steep opposition to earn that label.

Everything any minor-fraction party or faction gets? :rolleyes:

What’s wrong with the OP’s cite? The main site doesn’t seem to have too much in the way of seriousness, but it heavily cites better sources like Commondreams.org and the Bernie Sanders campaign. I’ve never had an issue with any of Rick Kitchen’s cites.

Did you read what the OP linked to? Despite her best efforts to convince us all that the Dems “betrayed” progressives with every single decision, even that writer eventually admitted that there were several very progressive recommendations made by this committee. I don’t blame you if you didn’t read that far, as journalism generally does not recommend putting important stuff into the eleventh paragraph; then again, “Films for Action” is not truly journalism, so there’s that.

Anyway:

Progressives got a plank stating that the big banks should be broken up.

They got a recommendation that a “modern-day form” of Glass Steagall should be passed.

They got a statement supporting a $15/hour minimum wage.

They got a strong statement against the death penalty.

And, as I mentioned earlier, there are many other planks in the Democratic platform that are quite progressive: voting rights, women’s health, gay rights, gun issues, and on and on and on. I know we have at least a couple of self-described progressives here on this board who don’t seem to care especially about these issues, and maybe you are one of them, but it seems quite clear to me that issues like these are at the core of what it means to be progressive.

So, the answer to your question would be, “They got a lot of things.” No, not everything, but they did okay. They certainly weren’t shut out altogether. It’s kind of too bad that the linked piece tried so hard to say otherwise.

It’s really interesting to just google democratic platform 2016 and see the different headlines for this development.

And my personal favorite:

OK, just for instance, lets take the $15 minimum wage. It is not so much the thing itself but the intent of the thing. What are we trying to accomplish? To relieve the burden on our less affluent citizens, obviously. To put money in the hands of people who will spend it, a little less obvious. The kind of intent that ought to gladden the shriveled hearts of corporate America, or at least those smart enough to realize that a consumer economy depends upon consumers having money. Très duh, mais non?

Can we sell it? Obviously, we can sell it to people who are working full time for less. And, of course, there are a lot of people who don’t see it that way, who only see it as drastically raising the pay of laggards and lay-abouts. Lets just suppose, for the sake of our hypothetical, that theres so many of them, selling the program becomes impossible. Not saying it is, just saying “what if?”.

The* intent* is to make life easier for our people, with the added benefit of spurring our economy. Is there another way, one that might be more attractive? Well, ok, how about subsidized child care, make it easier for parents to work and be rewarded? Also, leaving more money in their hands rather than putting more there. Selling benefits for crumb-snatching rug rats is an easier sell. So, maybe.

How would we know, who can we ask? Academic economics is one source, but is often questionable. As time has gone, the progressives have a stronger case to make, social democracy is functional, and in many ways, more efficient than rat-race based economics. But academic economics is not something divorced from politics, one cannot embrace an economic opinion as fact. How many economic academics are funded by people like the Koch Brothers, who already know to a certainty what the truth is, and seek intelligent persons to teach it. Anyway, utterly reliable expertise is not available.

We are going to be guessing, to some degree or another. So, if we can’t have both subsidized child care and a major advance in minimum wage, can we cobble together a bit of both, a compromise we can sell? And if we can sell it, and gain the power advantage necessary to implement it, can we adjust it if it falters?

Yes, we can. If we win. If we lose, we can’t do much of anything except cuss and spit teeth. Don’t say “$15 an hour or bust!” say, “We should raise the minimum wage!” Don’t say “Medicare for all!” say “We may need to expand and adjust the ACA”. Of course, we have every intention to doing exactly that, but we may need to! Because we already need to, but no reason to bore people with lengthy explanations.

I have a maxim: Cold mind, warm heart. Examine the situation ruthlessly, distill the facts down to the cold nuts. Use that information to inform your heartfelt goals, so that you may proceed to progress in the most efficient ways possible.

If I thought a Cornell West/Bernie Sanders platform would sweep the Progressives into power, I would love it. Kinda do anyway, that’s where my sentiments lie. But I am not convinced we can sell it. And if we can’t, its little more than a self-righteous exercise. Fuck that shit!

There is great confusion under Heaven, and the situation is excellent, as Herbert Hoover once posted on Facebook. The Goddess, in Her sublime wisdom, has placed the opportunity in our hands, a chance to kick the Forces of Darkness right in the 'nads. We should act in classic liberal fashion: demand the impossible, settle for the probable, swear we will never ask for anything else again, and start laying the groundwork to do exactly that.

Brothers and sisters, pals and gals, forward!

None of which are planks.

Indeed the $15 minimum wage was voted down making a “statement” seem a bit thin.

I am curious which parts you think are throwing a bone to the progressives as opposed to which parts the DNC would have done anyway?

Notably they shot down opposition to the TPP even though both candidates are on record taking positions opposed to the TPP.

This has been a recurring theme that Sanders can’t do what he wants but Clinton can get what she wants because she has…something.

Why on earth would anyone think Clinton can get things done that Sanders can’t? Because her proposals are more middle-of-the-road? Obama has already tried that for the last 11.5 years. He has had precious little success with it.

If there is one person republicans hate more than Obama it is Clinton. They despise her with a cold hatred that goes far beyond anything they have felt for Obama. There is no guessing at this either. Today the House just gave their report on Benghazi. How many investigations of Benghazi does that make against Clinton? Seven probes and 21 hearings? And that is JUST Benghazi. Do you want a laundry list of all the other probes and investigations they have leveled at the Clintons? It is mystifying and most are bullshit but they certainly try.

Republicans will probably do little more during a Clinton term than try to find ways to impeach her. It is absolutely wishful thinking to suppose that Clinton, of all people, will have a magical ability to get our divided congress to start working together. The chances are much greater that she will be even more divisive unless you can make a case that republicans will out of the blue bury the hatchet and play nice with her.

Republicans are about to pay a steep price for their obstructionist policies of the last 8 years. Will they learn anything from it? Doubtful.

The $15 minimum wage was NOT “voted down.” I have no idea where you are getting this from. Even the progressives-are-being-BETRAYED link in the OP recognized that the measure had been approved. If you don’t believe that, try “The Hill,” http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/284888-democratic-platform-draft-shows-sanderss-clout, or perhaps you would prefer the statement of “Fight for 15” itself, Fight For A Union.

Now, the recommendation did not index the minimum wage to inflation, which apparently has some people up in arms. Then again, I can’t remember Sanders saying “We’re going to get a $15 an hour minimum wage, and we’re going to index it to inflation!” We’re not moving the goalposts here, are we?

I have no idea, and what difference does it make anyway? Are you arguing that it doesn’t count if the DNC would’ve done it anyway? That seems very peculiar. Your question was what the progressives got that they wanted. Clearly, they got a decent amount of what they have been saying they wanted. Surely you’re not saying that the Sanders forces did not actually want a higher minimum wage, or a recommendation for a new Glass Steagall Act?

In any case, if I had a nickel for every time Sanders talked about Glass Steagall and breaking up the banks I’d be a hell of a lot richer than I am. That was in many ways the centerpiece of his campaign. It seems very odd to describe recommending this for the platform as “throwing a bone” to the progressive movement.

Personally, I don’t believe that Clinton would work better with the Republicans than Sanders would. It’s also fair to say that this isn’t an argument I have heard much.

The argument I HAVE heard, and the one I DO buy, is the argument that says that Clinton would do much better with the Democrats than Sanders would. Obama’s Iran deal is an excellent example: he used his political capital among Dems in Congress to twist arms, to make promises, to push people to support his agenda even when they were worried they might be better off voting no. He could do that because he HAD political capital; he was/is popular among the rank and file, and his help was/is appreciated (and his ability to punish was/is significant).

Clinton will be able to do that too, perhaps even more than Obama was. Sanders, on the other hand…? He was endorsed by, what, one Senator and eight representatives? He doesn’t play the game, either because he doesn’t choose to or because he doesn’t know how; and that would have left him with virtually no strong supporters in Congress, no lieutenants to speak of, very few people who would be willing to go to the mat for him.

Obviously, if the Democrats get a majority in both houses of Congress Clinton’s ability to corral and manage members will be more significant than if the GOP holds onto control. But as the Iran example shows, there are definitely times when a Democratic president in a GOP-controlled Congress benefits from having that political capital. And there’s no question that Clinton has it all over Sanders in that department.

I linked where I got it from in my post and it notes it was for an indexed minimum wage.

Absolutely it makes a difference. Of course there are places both sides agree upon already. Clinton supporters don’t get to say they gave a concession to the Sanders people on (say) abortion (now go sit in a corner and say nice things about Clinton) because they both already agreed on the issue. That is not what “concession” means.

Remember even the planks are not binding and mere recommendations. A “recommendation” has no teeth. Right up there with Clinton telling Wall Street to “Cut it out.” With such firm, bedrock finger-wagging this is bound to happen right?

Sanders’ legislative record is as good as Clinton’s when it comes to effectiveness in Congress. Depends how you slice it but neither was outstanding and neither was poor at it (although in when it came to roll call amendments Sanders reigned supreme).