# God-Damned mother-effing coward Spaniards. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 15, 2004, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324 "2004-03-15T00:16:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/301 "2004-03-16T15:54:37Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > I feel for the people of Spain and what they’ve suffered at the hands of both the ETA and AQ. But I also feel for the victims and families of the victims who are going to die as a result of the vastly increased terrorist activity that will certainly result from the triumph of terrorism in Spain. I don’t even know how to respond, this is a completely stupid thing to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/302 "2004-03-16T16:01:56Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > I don’t even know how to respond, this is a completely stupid thing to believe. Well, won’t you at least try? If it’s so stupid, it shouldn’t tax even your brain much. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/303 "2004-03-16T16:05:14Z")
Those of you still insisting that Spain (or at least the part of its population that voted for capitulation) did not play into the hands of AQ, this from CNN: \*CNN also has obtained an al Qaeda document that spells out the terrorist group’s plan to separate Spain from the U.S.-led coalition on Iraq. The document was published on the main message board that is used by al Qaeda and its sympathizers last December. The strategy spelled out in the document calls for using terrorist attacks to oust Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar’s Partido Popular from power and replace it with the Socialists. That, in turn, was expected to drive a wedge between Washington and Madrid and result in the withdrawal of Spanish military forces from Iraq. “We think the Spanish government will not stand more than two blows, or three at the most, before it will be forced to withdraw because of the public pressure on it,” the al Qaeda document says. “If its forces remain after these blows, the victory of the Socialist Party will be almost guaranteed – and the withdrawal of Spanish forces will be on its campaign manifesto.” That prediction came to fruition in elections Sunday, with the Socialists unseating the Popular Party three days after near-simultaneous bombings of four trains killed 200 and shocked the nation.\* ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/304 "2004-03-16T16:22:35Z")
Posted last December and they’ve only obtained it now? My, that’s quite a coincidence :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/305 "2004-03-16T16:27:29Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Those of you still insisting that Spain (or at least the part of its population that voted for capitulation)\* I can’t believe that after all these pages of discussion, you’re still using a word like “capitulation”. I’d like to have a cite showing that _any_ Spanish voter “capitulated” to AQ. “Capitulated” as in “you win”. You say AQ wanted the PP out of power. Fine. The question is did voters know that? Did they base their decision on that knowledge? Did _anyone_ vote PSOE because they knew that’s what terrorists wanted? If you cannot prove any of the above, you have no right to say Spanish voters “capitulated”, which is really just a step shy of calling them cowards. What you need to understand is that we need to make terrorists _irrelevent_. They wanted the PSOE to win. So what? If you voted for the PP simply because that’s what they didn’t want you to do, guess what? You’re still letting terrorists decide who you’re voting for. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/306 "2004-03-16T16:38:07Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Respectfully (and I do mean it), I disagree on a couple of points. 1) While I agree that it can be stopped by rounding them up, I’m dubious about the phrase “eliminating the root cause of their beef.” Should we have tried to discern Hitler’s beef? Or Hirohito’s? As far as I’m concerned, once you start killing people – and especially innocent ones who have nothing to do with your beef – you lose all right to have your complaints considered. This has a lot to do with my beef with Iraq. Hussien was paying families of suicide bombers in order to remove a disincentive from Palestinian bombers to blow themselves up in order to kill innocent Israelis. This means, yes, it supported terrorism! Allow me to rephrase then, because I don’t think my meaning came across. I don’t mean that in a ‘give them what they want’ sort of way. It’s like someone with cancer. You can cut out the tumour, but if you keep smoking, you’re probably going to get cancer again. Just rounding them up doesn’t complete the solution, because more will just pop up. ---
**Author:** ![gluteus\_maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f17d59/32.png) [@gluteus\_maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gluteus_maximus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/307 "2004-03-16T16:44:13Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > Although I don’t see what Gautanamo has to do with it–there’s no Americans there. What the fuck are you talking about? You never heard anything about the US Navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba? [Read and learn](http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/01/09/guantanmo.history/index.html)… well, we can [only hope!](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/03/12/britain.freed.ap/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/308 "2004-03-16T16:51:14Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Those of you still insisting that Spain (or at least the part of its population that voted for capitulation) did not play into the hands of AQ… To the extent that you had any credibility left in this thread, you sacrificed it completely with your use of the term “capitulation.” Fucking moron. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/309 "2004-03-16T17:04:45Z")
**sailor** , you are truly fighting ignorance. Most people in this thread are talking out of their ass, repeating, as **Starving Artist** said earlier, stuff they had heard “third hand”. You are there, you are part of it, and you have eloquently and rationally spoken the truth and have not allowed yourself to become riled by the shit-spewing invective directed at your people. You do these boards a great honor with your presence. Keep up the good work. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/310 "2004-03-16T17:10:38Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > The document was published on the main message board that is used by al Qaeda and its sympathizers last December. > > […] > > That prediction came to fruition in elections Sunday, with the Socialists unseating the Popular Party three days after near-simultaneous bombings of four trains killed 200 and shocked the nation. It’s called critical thinking. Follow along with me now: This “document” you’ve mentioned is nothing more than an anonymous posting on a message board. Since we’ve got access to a message board, how about we do a little role playing? Let’s say that I write “if he keeps to his core message, uses 9/11 to his advantage and limits the open debates with Senator Kerry, George Bush will handily win the 2004 election.” If he does all this, then wins, does it mean I _made_ him do it? Somehow, you apparently believe that an anonymous prediction posted on a message board needs to be taken seriously. If you want a graphic example of your fallacy, trip on over to stormfront sometime and you’ll see exactly how silly you’re acting. But I digress. Let’s continue with our exercise. This information was posted in December, 2003, on a known “al Qaeda message board.” The bombing was carried out at least three months later. We can infer, then, that Aznar’s government didn’t take this obvious (and public) threat seriously enough. Therefore, the incumbent Spanish government had failed its people. Under your reasoning, since Aznar dismissed such concrete evidence of terrorist strategy, doesn’t he deserve to be voted out of office? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/311 "2004-03-16T17:47:44Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > > [@Pochacco](#): > > > > George W. Bush, because of his weakness and cowardice and ineptitude, has played right into the hands of OBL. > > Cite? Paul Krugman, writing today in the New York Times, summarizes the case far better than I can: “It’s now clear that by shifting his focus to Iraq, Mr. Bush did Al Qaeda a huge favor. The terrorists and their Taliban allies were given time to regroup; the resurgent Taliban once again control almost a third of Afghanistan, and Al Qaeda has regained the ability to carry out large-scale atrocities.” (I’ve linked to the article through a non-NYT cite so those not registered with the Times can read it.) [http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/16/1079199221435.html](http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/16/1079199221435.html) Krugman nicely summarizes the ways in which George W. Bush has been weak on terror and a friend to Al Qaeda. If you have quarrels with specific factual points of Mr. Krugman’s analysis, perhaps I can follow up with cites for those. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/312 "2004-03-16T18:28:58Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > I do wish to know more about the polls, though. Not many news article I could find about them (I may be bad at searching for those). It can be in Spanish, if that helps. Here’s an informative article from March 5th: [Spain’s ruling party slips in polls](http://www.guardian.co.uk/spain/article/0,2763,1162597,00.html) > [@](#): > > Support for the Spanish People’s party government is ebbing away as concern about terrorism and separatism dominates the general election campaign, according to opinion polls published yesterday. According to the article, the government’s pollsters were predicting a wafer-thin one-seat majority for the PP, while independent polls concluded that they couldn’t even hope for that. Note that the “concern about terrorism” quoted above emphasizes ETA terrorism, with the PP campaigning on taking a firm stance against ETA terrorists: > [@](#): > > The People’s party has accused the Socialists and their prime ministerial candidate, José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, of being soft on Eta terrorism and separatism in the Basque country and Catalonia. > > That does not seem to have halted the slide in support, **even though Eta is widely considered to have given Mr Rajoy extra votes by trying to drive a half-tonne car bomb to Madrid at the weekend**. (My emphasis.) What do y’all suppose happened to those extra “We’re the guys who keep you safe from terrorists” votes? ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/313 "2004-03-16T18:34:10Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > To the people who have not read the article. > > 1. People of Spain are polled and look like they ar egoing to be voting one way. > > 2. Terrorists kill hundreds of Spaniards. > > 3. People of Spain dramatically change their vote to those whose policies jibe with terrorist demands. > > 1+2+3=terrorism works in Spain. > > BTW for those of you saying “OMG y do you hate democracy!?!?” **THIS IS NOT A SHOW OF DEMOCRACY!!!** This is a showing that bullying and murder work! This is a showing that, if you kill and terrorize, people will cower and do as you say! Viva Muad’Dib! This election has proven that Spain is in fact populated by the French! (I like the pig’s blood ordnance idea - we should also beat terrorists with shoes on Al-Jazeera! - Humiliate those fucks!) ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/314 "2004-03-16T18:36:21Z")
**Al Qaeda Dope Message Board** “Fighting Infidels since 1973” ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/315 "2004-03-16T18:49:17Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > **Al Qaeda Dope Message Board** > “Fighting Infidels since 1973” From what I’ve read, I believe _their_ Administrator goes by the handle **HookahMullah**. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/316 "2004-03-16T19:29:41Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Well, won’t you at least try? If it’s so stupid, it shouldn’t tax even your brain much. Actually it’s you knee jerking stupidity that’s taxing my brain, but I’m a sporting fellow, so I’ll give it a shot. My response is to the quote below. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > I feel for the people of Spain and what they’ve suffered at the hands of both the ETA and AQ. But I also feel for the victims and families of the victims who are going to die as a result of the vastly increased terrorist activity that will certainly result from the triumph of terrorism in Spain. The issue here is whether Spain pulling out of Iraq will result in _an increase_ of worldwide AQ activity, correct? Seriously, what is so hard to comprehend about this? The COLD, HARD, UNDISPUTABLE FACTS The overwhelming majority of people in Spain didn’t want to go into Iraq. Iraq and AQ HAVE NO LINKS WHATSOEVER. Why is it so stupid for Spain to pull out of Iraq which DOES NOTHING FOR THEM, and possibly save their asses a bit in the process? I suppose the crux of the issue is that you consider that cowardly, and I don’t. I’d wager Spain is pulling out for several reasons. 1. Fighting in Iraq is wasting their money and resources. 2. They will REALLOCATE their forces towards fighting AQ in hopes that taking them on directly will provide more tangible results then fighting in Iraq, which provides zero results. 3. They piss off AQ less, which last time I checked was a good thing. 4. THAT’S WHAT THE FUCKING PEOPLE WANTED IN THE FIRST PLACE, UNTIL AZFUCK DECIDED TO SAY “SCREW YOU”, SO THEY VOTED HIS ASS OUT OF OFFICE. You know what, if AQ thinks they won, then great for them I say. They’re too stupid or delusional to realize that Spain is pulling out so it can regroup and more efficiently kick their asses. You numbnuts think it’s more important to keep up appearances then to take bold steps with actual results. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/317 "2004-03-16T20:24:55Z")
It is quite obvious that what is the best way to decrease terrorism is a matter of opinion and even dispute. We are not going to settle that here but the OP assigns a motive to the votes > [@](#): > > God-Damned mother-effing coward Spaniards They were motivated by cowardice. This OP is as defensible as if after 9/11 someone had posted > [@](#): > > God-Damned mother-effing bloodthirsty imperialist Americans: They had it coming I say the two are equally defensible. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/318 "2004-03-16T20:42:02Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > I say the two are equally defensible. And I’d be the first to agree. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/319 "2004-03-16T21:40:56Z")
Sailor, Can I copy your posts in this thread and especially # 294 to my thread in GD? They would instantly explain what I try to explain. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324/320 "2004-03-16T22:17:49Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > Sailor, Can I copy your posts in this thread and especially # 294 to my thread in GD? They would instantly explain what I try to explain. As far as I am concerned you have my permission but you might want to check with the mods as they might prefer you to link here rather than copy. I went to the Atocha train station this afternoon and it was very touching. A couple of times I could hardly hold my tears. The entire station and even the sidewalks around it are full of candles, flowers and notes left by people. As can be expected there are some notes of rage with insults or demands for revenge but most of them are for peace. I have posted some photos at [http://sailor.teemingmillions.com/madrid13/Atocha1.htm](http://sailor.teemingmillions.com/madrid13/Atocha1.htm) [http://sailor.teemingmillions.com/madrid13/Atocha2.htm](http://sailor.teemingmillions.com/madrid13/Atocha2.htm) [http://sailor.teemingmillions.com/madrid13/Atocha3.htm](http://sailor.teemingmillions.com/madrid13/Atocha3.htm) [http://sailor.teemingmillions.com/madrid13/Atocha4.htm](http://sailor.teemingmillions.com/madrid13/Atocha4.htm) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-damned-mother-effing-coward-spaniards/234324.md?page=17)