# God doesn't seem very Godly to me **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 9, 2012, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494 "2012-12-09T07:04:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/221 "2014-06-16T16:41:49Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > First of all, I repeatedly pointed out that Sanatana Dharma cannot be confined to the narrow definition of religion. As far as we can tell from what you’ve presented here, you are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/222 "2014-06-16T16:42:55Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > Truth is not the property of any individual or any race or any religion. Truth is Universal. That’s the great thing about Truth - there are so many to choose from. ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/223 "2014-06-16T16:43:37Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > But I often do. > > And I would consider feeling refreshed when I wake to have been sleeping well, likewise losing the troubling pains of a previous day, etc. I’m not sure how else I would define “sleeping well” beyond, you know, seeing positive results of sleep. Do you accept there is difference in the level of refreshment between sleep with dreams and deep sleep where you are not conscious of yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/224 "2014-06-16T16:45:07Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > Truth is not the property of any individual or any race or any religion. Truth is Universal. Reality is universal. “Truth” is a product of the mind. ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/225 "2014-06-16T16:46:18Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > As far as we can tell from what you’ve presented here, you are wrong. I am posting in a thread questioning Religion and God, so there may be discrepancy in my presentation, But please form a conclusion only after reading the subject not through my posts alone. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/226 "2014-06-16T16:46:32Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > Do you accept there is difference in the level of refreshment between sleep with dreams and deep sleep where you are not conscious of yourself? Where are the studies that show this to be true? ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/227 "2014-06-16T16:47:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Reality is universal. “Truth” is a product of the mind. Reality is indeed universal, There are different forms of reality though. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/228 "2014-06-16T16:48:14Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > Do you accept there is difference in the level of refreshment between sleep with dreams and deep sleep where you are not conscious of yourself? No, I wouldn’t say that there was a difference. I’ve felt refreshed when I’ve dreamed sometimes, and exhausted when I’ve dreamed sometimes. Same for not dreaming. I can’t say there’s been any difference in the quality of refreshment that separates the two. ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/229 "2014-06-16T16:48:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Where are the studies that show this to be true? I can search for the studies and post it here, But let us first have personal account of the same. Dont you feel the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/230 "2014-06-16T16:49:03Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > Reality is indeed universal, There are different forms of reality though. That just happens to be what your religion believes to be “true”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/231 "2014-06-16T16:50:54Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > I can search for the studies and post it here, But let us first have personal account of the same. Dont you feel the difference? 1. Let’s see those studies first. 2. Not really. ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/232 "2014-06-16T16:51:28Z")
"Deep sleep coincides with the release of growth hormone in children and young adults. Many of the body’s cells also show increased production and reduced breakdown of proteins during deep sleep. Since proteins are the building blocks needed for cell growth and for repair of damage from factors like stress and ultraviolet rays, deep sleep may truly be “beauty sleep.” Activity in parts of the brain that control emotions, decision-making processes, and social interactions is drastically reduced during deep sleep, suggesting that this type of sleep may help people maintain optimal emotional and social functioning while they are awake. A study in rats also showed that certain nerve-signaling patterns which the rats generated during the day were repeated during deep sleep. This pattern repetition may help encode memories and improve learning. " [http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/brain\_basics/understanding\_sleep.htm](http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/brain_basics/understanding_sleep.htm) ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/233 "2014-06-16T16:52:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That just happens to be what your religion believes to be “true”. Not really. As i said, there is no place for “Belief” in my system. I dont have to believe anything, Blind belief is not encouraged in Sanatana Dharma. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/234 "2014-06-16T16:54:41Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > "Deep sleep coincides with the release of growth hormone in children and young adults. Many of the body’s cells also show increased production and reduced breakdown of proteins during deep sleep. Since proteins are the building blocks needed for cell growth and for repair of damage from factors like stress and ultraviolet rays, deep sleep may truly be “beauty sleep.” Activity in parts of the brain that control emotions, decision-making processes, and social interactions is drastically reduced during deep sleep, suggesting that this type of sleep may help people maintain optimal emotional and social functioning while they are awake. A study in rats also showed that certain nerve-signaling patterns which the rats generated during the day were repeated during deep sleep. This pattern repetition may help encode memories and improve learning. " > > [http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/brain\_basics/understanding\_sleep.htm](http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/brain_basics/understanding_sleep.htm) And you think this supports your theory? Have you got one that shows that deep sleep _plus_ dreams is detrimental? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/235 "2014-06-16T16:55:53Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > I am not a Swami. Just a follower of Sanatana Dharma. There is no place for vendetta in Vedanta, Because there is no second being to have vendetta against. Advaita means Non Dualism. OK, I like Santana also, although I prefer their earlier stuff. So we forget this vendetta. Now let’s see you snatch this pebble from my hand. ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/236 "2014-06-16T17:00:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And you think this supports your theory? Have you got one that shows that deep sleep _plus_ dreams is detrimental? First of all this is not a theory. I have experienced it myself and almost everyone who consciously observes the difference between the two can vouch for the same.I have never come across anyone saying that I felt very bad about my deep sleep etc etc. I have seen people complaining about dreams and lack of mental rest due to that. I posted this after cursory search in internet. I can find more papers if I search more. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/237 "2014-06-16T17:00:53Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > Not really. As i said, there is no place for “Belief” in my system. I dont have to believe anything, Blind belief is not encouraged in Sanatana Dharma. This is why explanations from the inside are so difficult to understand-indoctrination lead to special terms and definitions that those who are indoctrinated eventually come to think are universally acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/238 "2014-06-16T17:01:21Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > Do you accept there is difference in the level of refreshment between sleep with dreams and deep sleep where you are not conscious of yourself? How about sleep with dreams which you don’t remember - which are most of them. My definition of sleeping well is exactly the same as that of **Revenant Threshold**. Sleep has a physiological restorative purpose - that is why we evolved it, given that sleep is dangerous if you are a prey animal. When sleep fulfills that purpose we feel refreshed and say we slept well. How do we have opinions about mental states were are not conscious of? There has been tons of research on sleep. If you care about truth perhaps you should read some. So far the only checkable statement you’ve made has been wrong which is not very encouraging. However, you don’t need a PhD in psychology to see the difference between the three states of sleep you mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/239 "2014-06-16T17:04:14Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > First of all this is not a theory. I have experienced it myself and almost everyone who consciously observes the difference between the two can vouch for the same.I have never come across anyone saying that I felt very bad about my deep sleep etc etc. I have seen people complaining about dreams and lack of mental rest due to that. I posted this after cursory search in internet. I can find more papers if I search more. Search away. By the way, I doubt very much that you have talked with “almost everyone who consciously observes the difference between the two.” Perhaps you meant to say those in your circle of friends and acquaintances? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/240 "2014-06-16T17:04:38Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > "Deep sleep coincides with the release of growth hormone in children and young adults. Many of the body’s cells also show increased production and reduced breakdown of proteins during deep sleep. Since proteins are the building blocks needed for cell growth and for repair of damage from factors like stress and ultraviolet rays, deep sleep may truly be “beauty sleep.” Activity in parts of the brain that control emotions, decision-making processes, and social interactions is drastically reduced during deep sleep, suggesting that this type of sleep may help people maintain optimal emotional and social functioning while they are awake. A study in rats also showed that certain nerve-signaling patterns which the rats generated during the day were repeated during deep sleep. This pattern repetition may help encode memories and improve learning. " > > [http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/brain\_basics/understanding\_sleep.htm](http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/brain_basics/understanding_sleep.htm) My belief system says that ice cream is yummy. Ice cream is yummy. My belief system is valid! Um, no. No one here was doubting that sleep is good for you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494.md?page=13)