# God doesn't seem very Godly to me **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 9, 2012, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494 "2012-12-09T07:04:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/241 "2014-06-16T17:10:18Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > How about sleep with dreams which you don’t remember - which are most of them. My definition of sleeping well is exactly the same as that of **Revenant Threshold**. Sleep has a physiological restorative purpose - that is why we evolved it, given that sleep is dangerous if you are a prey animal. When sleep fulfills that purpose we feel refreshed and say we slept well. How do we have opinions about mental states were are not conscious of? > There has been tons of research on sleep. If you care about truth perhaps you should read some. So far the only checkable statement you’ve made has been wrong which is not very encouraging. However, you don’t need a PhD in psychology to see the difference between the three states of sleep you mentioned. I dont claim myself to be researcher of various states of sleep. Infact this is sidetrack to the Point I have been making. Mandukya Upanishad explains various of state of existence in detail . This ancient text deals with waking state, dream state & deep sleep state in detail and talks about the state of Samadhi(Enlightened state). My point about sleep is regarding the Consciousness which is Infinite & Eternal and Independent of Body & Mind. Deep Sleep state is probably the closest one can get to our source without any Yogic Practice. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/242 "2014-06-16T17:11:39Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > I have never come across anyone saying that I felt very bad about my deep sleep etc etc. Then I will be your first. I have had deep sleep which has made me feel dreadful, woken up feeling still tired, drained, and otherwise haven’t slept well despite sleeping for a long time very deeply. Sometimes I feel very much better after that kind of deep sleep, of course. But, yes, I have felt very bad about my deep sleep before. ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/243 "2014-06-16T17:13:12Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > My belief system says that ice cream is yummy. > Ice cream is yummy. > My belief system is valid! > > Um, no. No one here was doubting that sleep is good for you. The paper i quoted was not part of “my belief system” if you notice the link. ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/244 "2014-06-16T17:15:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Search away. By the way, I doubt very much that you have talked with “almost everyone who consciously observes the difference between the two.” Perhaps you meant to say those in your circle of friends and acquaintances? Read here about the difference between the two. During the deep stages of NREM sleep, the body repairs and regenerates tissues, builds bone and muscle, and appears to strengthen the immune system. As you get older, you sleep more lightly and get less deep sleep. Aging is also associated with shorter time spans of sleep, although studies show the amount of sleep needed doesn’t appear to diminish with age. Usually, REM sleep occurs 90 minutes after sleep onset. The first period of REM typically lasts 10 minutes, with each recurring REM stage lengthening, and the final one may last up to an hour. Polysomnograms show brainwave patterns in REM to be similar to that recorded during wakefulness. In people without sleep disorders, heart rate and respiration speed up and become erratic during REM sleep. During this stage the eyes move rapidly in different directions. Intense dreaming occurs during REM sleep as a result of heightened brain activity, but paralysis occurs simultaneously in the major voluntary muscle groups. REM is a mixture of encephalic (brain) states of excitement and muscular immobility. For this reason, it is sometimes called paradoxical sleep. [http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/excessive-sleepiness-10/sleep-101?page=2](http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/excessive-sleepiness-10/sleep-101?page=2) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/245 "2014-06-16T17:15:17Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > My point about sleep is regarding the Consciousness which is Infinite & Eternal and Independent of Body & Mind. Deep Sleep state is probably the closest one can get to our source without any Yogic Practice. This is all pretty meaningless word salad. It’s all your opinion, and there are dozens of other religions that have similar statements of faith, many of which are in direct contradiction of yours. There’s nothing wrong with them if they work for you, but don’t imagine they are universally accepted or supported by evidence. ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/246 "2014-06-16T17:16:28Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Then I will be your first. I have had deep sleep which has made me feel dreadful, woken up feeling still tired, drained, and otherwise haven’t slept well despite sleeping for a long time very deeply. Sometimes I feel very much better after that kind of deep sleep, of course. But, yes, I have felt very bad about my deep sleep before. Scientific papers say Deep sleep is the best form of sleep for your body and mind to get rejuvanate. While dream sleep is considered as “wakeful sleep”. ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/247 "2014-06-16T17:18:19Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > This is all pretty meaningless word salad. It’s all your opinion, and there are dozens of other religions that have similar statements of faith, many of which are in direct contradiction of yours. There’s nothing wrong with them if they work for you, but don’t imagine they are universally accepted or supported by evidence. It is indeed universally accepted that one doesnt have Body or Mind consciousness during deep sleep state, unless you imagine otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/248 "2014-06-16T17:21:05Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > Scientific papers say Deep sleep is the best form of sleep for your body and mind to get rejuvanate. While dream sleep is considered as “wakeful sleep”. What do scientific papers say about people who do not dream at all? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/249 "2014-06-16T17:22:44Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > It is indeed universally accepted that one doesnt have Body or Mind consciousness during deep sleep state, unless you imagine otherwise. Where did you get this “universal truth”? ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/250 "2014-06-16T17:25:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What do scientific papers say about people who do not dream at all? Isnt that quite normal and preferred mode of sleep? ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/251 "2014-06-16T17:27:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Where did you get this “universal truth”? Do you claim otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/252 "2014-06-16T17:29:20Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > Isnt that quite normal and preferred mode of sleep? Sleeping without ever dreaming is quite normal and preferred? I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/253 "2014-06-16T17:30:26Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > Do you claim otherwise? I’m now claiming that you didn’t answer my question. ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/254 "2014-06-16T17:31:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sleeping without ever dreaming is quite normal and preferred? I don’t think so. Not talking about not dreaming ever. Sleep with dreams and sleep without dreams are quite normal while Dreamless Deep sleep is preferred for rejuvenation. ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/255 "2014-06-16T17:32:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m now claiming that you didn’t answer my question. I can claim the same. Yes, Deep sleep is the state where you dont have body or mind consciousness. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/256 "2014-06-16T17:43:19Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > Scientific papers say Deep sleep is the best form of sleep for your body and mind to get rejuvanate. While dream sleep is considered as “wakeful sleep”. And yet, I have woken and felt dreadful after deep sleep, and woken and felt excellent after dreaming sleep. And vice-versa, of course. You’ve yet to cite papers which show what you claim, by the way. REM sleep is where dreaming occurs, but not every time. Normal sleep patterns have the body moving in a sort of wave-like pattern, of long periods of non-REM sleep followed by much shorter periods of REM sleep and back to non-REM sleep again - but this is true whether you dream or don’t dream. Too, when we’re sleep deprived, the body often reacts when we eventually do sleep by increasing the number and length of REM sleep occurrences, not decrease, as we would expect if they were somehow less useful or necessary parts of our sleep cycle. Non-REM and REM sleep are not equivalent to “deep sleep” and “dreaming sleep”. Edit: I went to check up on my vaguely-remembered knowledge from degree classes, and it turns out that in fact dreams can occur during non-REM sleep, to a much lesser extent. So the equivalency is slacker still, really. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/257 "2014-06-16T17:43:39Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > The paper i quoted was not part of “my belief system” if you notice the link. You were using it to support your belief system. Must be, since no one here questioned that sleep is beneficial. ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/258 "2014-06-16T17:44:12Z")
It was nice interacting with you all. As I said, I am new to this forum. Looking forward to have more interactions. Will check back later.Good day to all. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/259 "2014-06-16T21:39:02Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > It was nice interacting with you all. As I said, I am new to this forum. Looking forward to have more interactions. Hey! You’re [Eugene Goostman](http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1858), aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/260 "2014-06-17T03:27:09Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Hey! You’re [Eugene Goostman](http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1858), aren’t you? Do you want to promote some random site here? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494.md?page=14)