# God doesn't seem very Godly to me **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 9, 2012, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494 "2012-12-09T07:04:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/281 "2014-06-17T06:56:05Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Umm, 2+2 does equal 5 . . . for certain values of 2. That is math in itself. > > CMC fnord! That is specialty of Values. ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/282 "2014-06-17T06:57:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And thus we encounter the the “fuzzy” part of religion. Also we encounter Fundamentalist part of “Atheist Religion”. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/283 "2014-06-17T08:20:28Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > Also we encounter Fundamentalist part of “Atheist Religion”. You sound very judgmental. I thought you said skepticism was okay in your system? ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/284 "2014-06-17T08:49:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You sound very judgmental. I thought you said skepticism was okay in your system? Skepticism is absolutely fine. I am surprised you dont see Judgmental tone in the post i replied to. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/285 "2014-06-17T09:52:49Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > Dream sleep and deep sleep can be easily differentiated and the deep sleep is beneficial over all, some times dream sleep can be beneficial but not always. But, as I’ve already said, I see no difference between the two on a personal basis (besides, of course, that one includes dreams and the other doesn’t). On an experimental level they do appear to be different, although again, you’re really misrepresenting how much you can conflate REM state with the difference you’re attempting to draw here. > [@](#): > > We are missing the point here. Deep sleep state transcends body and mind and proves that feeling of “I” exist even without Body and Mind, that “I” is the real self or consciousness. Except that, as I have already said, your attempt at proving that by talking about how we say “I slept well.” isn’t how I mean that. You then attempted to tell me what I personally thought, which thankfully for your arguments you seem to have dropped right now, and unfortunately for them replaced with a simple restatement of your points while ignoring what I think. I have woken feeling dreadful after deep sleep. Does that mean that I do not have an “I”? Am I an automaton of some kind, perhaps? You seem to have defined “real self or consciousness” in a way that excludes me from it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/286 "2014-06-17T11:24:47Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > Also we encounter Fundamentalist part of “Atheist Religion”. Questioning your claims and being skeptical is not being fundamentalist. Try starting small. Lay out exactly what assumptions you’re making – what beliefs are you assuming we share such that we should be able to understand what you’re saying? So far, much of the verbiage you’re using sounds like gibberish to me. I cannot make heads or tails of it. Here’s an example: “We may roughly put it like this, Existence or consciousness is the only reality” I have no idea what this means. It reads like word salad to me – nouns put in a sentence without any real meaning. ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/287 "2014-06-17T11:33:36Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > But, as I’ve already said, I see no difference between the two on a personal basis (besides, of course, that one includes dreams and the other doesn’t). On an experimental level they do appear to be different, although again, you’re really misrepresenting how much you can conflate REM state with the difference you’re attempting to draw here. Except that, as I have already said, your attempt at proving that by talking about how we say “I slept well.” isn’t how I mean that. You then attempted to tell me what I personally thought, which thankfully for your arguments you seem to have dropped right now, and unfortunately for them replaced with a simple restatement of your points while ignoring what I think. > > I have woken feeling dreadful after deep sleep. Does that mean that I do not have an “I”? Am I an automaton of some kind, perhaps? You seem to have defined “real self or consciousness” in a way that excludes me from it. “I Slept well” are never meant to be taken the way you have taken it. In deep sleep you are not aware of yourself, You dont know your name or form. So in that case, there are only 2 possibilities, 1. You didn’t exist during the sleep and suddenly re-appeared only after waking up.[Which is Irrational at best] 2. You continue to exist through different states. You continue to exist even without the feeling of body and mind. Super consciousness or Brahman is eternal. So Turiya or Transcendental state can be the only reality . That which does not exist in the beginning and in the end does not really exist in the middle also. It is unreal. In Deep sleep state you are experiencing something very closer to reality. That has been my point all along. Whether you feel refreshed after dream sleep or deep sleep is collateral. ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/288 "2014-06-17T11:43:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Questioning your claims and being skeptical is not being fundamentalist. > > [Try starting small. Lay out exactly what assumptions you’re making – what beliefs are you assuming we share such that we should be able to understand what you’re saying?] > > I do not make any assumption, It seems to be your assumption that I am assuming some belief. may be it is based on your own personal belief of “Atheism”. > > [So far, much of the verbiage you’re using sounds like gibberish to me. I cannot make heads or tails of it. Here’s an example:] > > Whatever you do not understand or something which is beyond your level of comprehension might seem gibberish at first, But anyone who is interested in learning wont get discouraged at that, but strive to understand through further learning and being open minded. > > “We may roughly put it like this, Existence or consciousness is the only reality” > > I have no idea what this means. It reads like word salad to me – nouns put in a sentence without any real meaning. The quote is of Ramana Maharishi, It is unfortunate that you are unable to comprehend his teachings but not surprising though. You should have basic knowledge of Vedanta to understand the quotation, that is why I have been saying right from the beginning, Please have cursory reading of Vedanta, if not for anything, atleast you can oppose something based on facts not on ur personal belief. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/289 "2014-06-17T11:52:25Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > The quote is of Ramana Maharishi, It is unfortunate that you are unable to comprehend his teachings but not surprising though. You should have basic knowledge of Vedanta to understand the quotation, that is why I have been saying right from the beginning, Please have cursory reading of Vedanta, if not for anything, atleast you can oppose something based on facts not on ur personal belief. Maybe sometime I’ll be able to read about Vedanta (and the thousands of other philosophies out there), but not at the moment – I’ve got lots of other stuff on my reading list right now. Can you provide any reason why I should move Vedanta to the top of that list? What sets it apart from so many other philosophies and religions? ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/290 "2014-06-17T12:13:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Maybe sometime I’ll be able to read about Vedanta (and the thousands of other philosophies out there), but not at the moment – I’ve got lots of other stuff on my reading list right now. > > Can you provide any reason why I should move Vedanta to the top of that list? What sets it apart from so many other philosophies and religions? 1. Because we are discussing Vedanta here. 2. In all other religion or Spiritual concepts, you are taught that God is some Super Personality living in heaven remote controlling the universe. Vedanta explores the various possibilities of Creation and deals about the question of God, and through various analysis, argument and counter arguments concludes “God” is in oneself. “Tat Tvam Asi” or Thou art That is the final word of Vedanta. All differences in this world are of degree, and not of kind, because oneness is the secret of everything. -Swami Vivekananda Advaita or Non Dualism is the logical conclusion of Vedanta. If you find time to explore on Vedanta. Please start with this Lecture of Swami Vivekananda delivered in London. [http://ramakrishnavivekananda.info/vivekananda/volume\_1/lectures\_and\_discourses/the\_vedanta\_philosophy.htm](http://ramakrishnavivekananda.info/vivekananda/volume_1/lectures_and_discourses/the_vedanta_philosophy.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/291 "2014-06-17T12:16:07Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > You dont know your name or form. This is _exactly_ what I mean by “groupspeak”-Unless you have already been indoctrinated into your religion this phrase(and so many others you have given us) has absolutely no meaning. edited to add: “All differences in this world are of degree, and not of kind, because oneness is the secret of everything.” This is an even better example of “groupspeak”. Unless you swallow the pill, it means absolutely nothing. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/292 "2014-06-17T12:21:44Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > 1. Because we are discussing Vedanta here. Discussion sounds fine and interesting. That’s what I’m here for. But I’m not here for homework. > [@](#): > > 1. In all other religion or Spiritual concepts, you are taught that God is some Super Personality living in heaven remote controlling the universe. Vedanta explores the various possibilities of Creation and deals about the question of God, and through various analysis, argument and counter arguments concludes “God” is in oneself. “Tat Tvam Asi” or Thou art That is the final word of Vedanta. Many religions, including many types of Christianity, teach that “God” is inside oneself. What makes Vedanta different? ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/293 "2014-06-17T12:29:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This is _exactly_ what I mean by “groupspeak”-Unless you have already been indoctrinated into your religion this phrase(and so many others you have given us) has absolutely no meaning. > > You didnt answer my simple question. Do you claim that you are having Body and Mind consciousness during deep sleep? If you are not having body consciousness or Mind . How could you be aware of your name or form? > > edited to add: “All differences in this world are of degree, and not of kind, because oneness is the secret of everything.” This is an even better example of “groupspeak”. Unless you swallow the pill, it means absolutely nothing. You dont have to swallow any pill. You just have to come out of your preconceived notions, Have rational mind and scientific temper to understand the oneness of Universe. If you have it, you can read through this. Advaita Vedanta and Quantum Physics [http://www.advaitayoga.org/advaitayogaarticles/advaitaquantumphysics.html](http://www.advaitayoga.org/advaitayogaarticles/advaitaquantumphysics.html) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/294 "2014-06-17T12:29:53Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > 1. Because we are discussing Vedanta here. Seriously dude, that is crap. Try some good aged cheddar and you’ll never look back. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/295 "2014-06-17T12:32:54Z")
“ **MusicalDream** says I should go to this website and read it” is not enough reason to actually do it. Nearly every website I go to has someone telling me to go to another site and read it. So far, I haven’t seen anything from **MusicalDream** that shows something unique, different, or special about Vedanta. ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/296 "2014-06-17T12:36:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Discussion sounds fine and interesting. That’s what I’m here for. But I’m not here for homework. > > Many religions, including many types of Christianity, teach that “God” is inside oneself. What makes Vedanta different? You mean Christianity discards the creationist God and propagates Everyone is God, everything is God? There is difference between One God and God is one. ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/297 "2014-06-17T12:38:07Z")
[quote=“iiandyiiii, post:292, topic:643494”] Discussion sounds fine and interesting. That’s what I’m here for. But I’m not here for homework. Discussion would be more interesting if you are aware of the subject you are discussing about. Having minimal knowledge on the subject does no harm, does it? ---
**Author:** ![MusicalDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MusicalDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicalDream)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/298 "2014-06-17T12:40:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > “ **MusicalDream** says I should go to this website and read it” is not enough reason to actually do it. Nearly every website I go to has someone telling me to go to another site and read it. > > So far, I haven’t seen anything from **MusicalDream** that shows something unique, different, or special about Vedanta. I did not say “You should go to this website to learn it” I only said, if you are interested to learn, start from here, the place where i started, I thought the site would be of much help to you especially as a beginner. We cannot force anyone to learn anything, right? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/299 "2014-06-17T12:43:27Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > You mean Christianity discards the creationist God and propagates Everyone is God, everything is God? No, but I’ve heard forms of Buddhism that do. Not that I understand it – what does it mean if “Everyone is God, everything is God”? Does God make decisions, or have any power? According to Vedanta, how did the universe come into existence, and how did humans come into existence? > [@](#): > > There is difference between One God and God is one. Many other philosophies and religions teach some variation on both “One God” and “God is one”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494/300 "2014-06-17T12:44:46Z")
> [@MusicalDream](#): > > I did not say “You should go to this website to learn it” I only said, if you are interested to learn, start from here, the place where i started, I thought the site would be of much help to you especially as a beginner. > > We cannot force anyone to learn anything, right? That’s reasonable, but it’s also the same thing dozens of other people tell me on websites every day. I have a limited amount of time in this world, and each day, so I’m unable to go to every website that is recommended to me. I’m interested in your explanation as to what makes Vedanta different/special/unique, and why it would be worth my time to investigate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-doesnt-seem-very-godly-to-me/643494.md?page=16)