# God forbid we teach our kids **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 26, 2002, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853 "2002-11-26T06:46:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/281 "2002-11-27T02:04:29Z")
Even if it was boring, I think you obviously could benefit. Seriously And STOP equating **Jodi** with **His4ever**. She is NOTHING of the sort. There is only so much you can blame on others, dude. You can’t go around hating yourself so much and hating others. It’s like a cancer that eats at you. At the very least, you’re hurting yourself by driving away a lot of people who would be willing to take up your cause. ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/282 "2002-11-27T02:05:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gomez \* > I think what a lot of people are missing is that there are many here who are concerned solely with the _principle_ of losing control over what their kids are taught be it homosexuailty, firearm safety, satanism, BDSM or whatever. If they want control over what their kids learn, and veto over what their kids are taught, then they should take their kids out of public school. By putting their kids in the free public schools, they are ceding their veto right over education. They want total control? Then find the money to send the kid to the private school that teaches what they want their kids to hear. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![In\_Conceivable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4bbf92/32.png) [@In\_Conceivable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Conceivable)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/283 "2002-11-27T02:06:50Z")
Free public school? How is public school free? I have been paying for the public schools in my area since I was 16. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/284 "2002-11-27T02:07:28Z")
> [@](#): > > think what a lot of people are missing is that there are many here who are concerned solely with the principle of losing control over what their kids are taught be it homosexuailty, firearm safety, satanism, BDSM or whatever. Satanism and BDSM? Please, let’s intorduce no more strawmen. I can sympathize that parents might be worried about kids learning things they might not approve of. However, when the anxiety is about students’ learning to not hate people who are different, I have very little patience for the complainant. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/285 "2002-11-27T02:07:42Z")
> [@](#): > > That whore would rather condemn and cause deaths than allow these gay teens to be told that they’re okay, they’re not evil, they’re not perverts, and maybe save lives. She is evil, to the core of her being, because of this, and so is anyone who would argue alongside her. And perhaps, because, as she says, she knows no gay and or lesbian in real life (that she knows of), that her impression of you might color her perspective of gays in the future? Just as people like her colored your perspective of Protestants? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/286 "2002-11-27T02:08:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > And STOP equating **Jodi** with **His4ever**. She is NOTHING of the sort. She apparently is. This is a black or white issue. Either you’re in favor of teaching kids that gay people aren’t bad, aren’t perverted, etc, or you’re opposed to it. Either you’re a good person who wants to save gay teens from death, or you’re a bigotted monster. > [@](#): > > There is only so much you can blame on others, dude. Oh yes, because I had so much control over what I was taught, what the curriculumn was, or how horrible the community I was raised in was. You know how many times I heard something about gays in the classroom? Not one damn time. The only time you heard about gays was when a bully was calling someone he didn’t like a “fag.” That is wrong. That leaves scars that will never go away – and Jodi and that whore His are more than content to allow that to continue. That makes them evil. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Witch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@Witch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Witch)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/287 "2002-11-27T02:10:52Z")
**gobear** …did it EVER cross your mind that some 11 year olds may not even know what “gay” means? And whether you like it or not it’s a term that encompasses sexuality. And I find it amusing that the ones demanding tolerance for themselves are calling me “stupid” and a “fucking bitch” when I ask the same consideration in how I choose to raise my children. You’ll really further your cause that way. good going. .And **Gomez** has just made my same point yet again. ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/288 "2002-11-27T02:11:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > And perhaps, because, as she says, she knows no gay and or lesbian in real life (that she knows of), that her impression of you might color her perspective of gays in the future? She knows gay people. Everyone does. But they’re smart enough not to tell her they’re gay, because they know what putrid troll of a person she is. > [@](#): > > Just as people like her colored your perspective of Protestants? I have no problem with Protestants. Only those who seek to continue to the spree of gay teen death, who seek to continue the oppression of gays in America, who seek to use a worthless book of myths to justify their own outdated prejudices. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/289 "2002-11-27T02:12:37Z")
You get no choice, Witch, on whether or not your kids are taught in school that it is bad to be a racist, and there’s nothing wrong with being black. The exact same should go for gays. It is the exact same situation. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/290 "2002-11-27T02:14:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by In Conceivable \* > \*\*Free public school? How is public school free? I have been paying for the public schools in my area since I was 16. \*\* So have I. But it is free for your children to attend. If they attend, there is no added cost. The cost of paying for public schools is the cost of being a citizen. It doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not you have children in school. Just like the city library is free. Sure, you pay for it in taxes, but it costs you nothing to use beyond that, and your payment is simply part of the cost of being a citizen, whether you use the service. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/291 "2002-11-27T02:15:42Z")
You know, what pisses me off more than anything about **Kirkland** is that he is making me step up to defend **His4Ever.** I will never forgive him for this. **Kirk** , shut up. You are making me mad, and I’m on your side. Your howls of rage have long since ceased to make any sense and are now just the inchoate ravings of a wounded animal. **His4Ever** is a very dim woman who knows little about the world, but she is not a whore. If anything, she is the opposite, a prim, proper lady who would likely rather get eaten by a yak than act in an unseemly fashion. You are only serving as propaganda bait, an insane gay person who will only confirm in others the prejudices they already have. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/292 "2002-11-27T02:18:09Z")
**Kirk** , I’m on your side of the argument here, but I don’t think it’s helpful to call people names. I don’t think H4E is evil, misguided, maybe, or flat out wrong a lot of the time, but to call her “scum” or a “whore” is a little bit over the top. Frankly, I just think she’s been given a lot of bad information by whatever fundie sect she belongs to. As misguided as she is, I think she has good intentions deep down. If you really want to change people’s minds, you need to show them you repect them as people first. As soon as you call someone a “whore” they’re going to shut right down and ignore everything else you say. You have made some good points in between your invectives. if you left out the name-calling you might get someone to notice them. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/293 "2002-11-27T02:20:43Z")
> [@](#): > > And I find it amusing that the ones demanding tolerance for themselves are calling me “stupid” and a “fucking bitch” when I ask the same consideration in how I choose to raise my children I did not call you a “fucking bitch”–not very honest of you to put words in my mouth. Don’t confuse me with **Kirk**. And yes, saying that teaching kids tolerance toward gay kids is teaching them about sex is a stupid thing to say. ---
**Author:** ![Witch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@Witch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Witch)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/294 "2002-11-27T02:22:36Z")
Informed **Diogenes**. What I choose to do with that information is really none of your business. But, for what it’s worth, when my oldest two were 11, I would have had no problem. With my 12 year old now who’s special needs, I’d tread a bit more carefully. I wouldn’t exclude him, but I’d discuss these issues with him in a different manner than I did with his brother and sister. Each child is different, and each parent has the right to decide how they feel their child is best introduced to these issues so the have maximum benefit. If I were blindsided on this, I’d be totally pissed off, as my youngest may not have the maturity at 12 that many of his peers have. MY child has just as many rights as his gay peers do, and my saying that does NOT make me a bigot. He’s bipolar, and has as many fucking issues as a gay kid, and I have every right to steer him through things. Other parents may have their own reasons for wanting to be informed. It’s none of my business, nor is it yours. ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/295 "2002-11-27T02:23:02Z")
Diogenes, fundamentalists are stupid people with stupid beliefs, incapable of independent thought or learning. You could create a pop-up book that explains the world to them, succinctly, politely and clearly in monosyllabic words, and they still wouldn’t understand. They have no capacity to learn, to love or to grow. To put faith in them is to cause yourself nothing but pain. I’ve had enough of that pain. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Gomez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d78d45/32.png) [@Gomez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gomez)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/296 "2002-11-27T02:23:43Z")
**Kirkland** Y’know, even though you’re sitting behind a small screen approximately 3000 miles away from me, I still feel a little nervous about disagreeing with you. Power of the written word, eh? 🙂 > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Kirkland_ > No. Because that would, in the end, kill people. The whole point is to save lives Now, you know, and I know, that **His4Ever** is full of shit. However there are, as you’ve taken pains to state, a not inconsiderable amount of people who _do_ agree with her. Now, while that in itself is a good argument for the sorts of class presentations you are advocating, there is a flip side in as much as while your presentations would save lives, to ignoramuses like the sort of people who agree with **His4Ever** , inviting her in to speak about the evils of homosexuality might, in their puny minds, very well save souls. As far as _they_ are concerned they would be justified. I don’t want to lead this discussion into the validity of **His4Ever’s** beliefs in this regard as we both know they’re just a pedestal for prejudice. However, if a teacher in a school firmly believed that a little informal chat from **His4Ever** would save his students _souls_ should he have the right to invite her to the school to talk to young students who have yet to form a concrete opinion on homosexuality without the permission of the parents? As far as I can tell the principle’s don’t run parallel. Please note that I do _not_ want to affiliate myself in any way with **His4Ever**. However, I _am_ a little concerned about the general principle that a presentation can be given on what is widely regarded as a ‘touchy subject’ without my knowing about it. Although I wouldn’t object, it would set a worrying precedent in so far as the next speaker _might very well be_ His4Ever. ---
**Author:** ![In\_Conceivable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4bbf92/32.png) [@In\_Conceivable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Conceivable)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/297 "2002-11-27T02:24:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > **I did not call you a “fucking bitch”–not very honest of you to put words in my mouth** Now that is the funniest thing I have read all day! You won’t even admit to basically making up things and saying other people said them. ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/298 "2002-11-27T02:25:04Z")
A life is proven to exist. The soul may very well just be a myth. Therefore consideration regarding it has NO PLACE in any school. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/299 "2002-11-27T02:25:15Z")
Dude, calm _down._ I agree, largely, with the substance of your argument, as you should know. But the way you’re expressing yourself is driving me up the wall. It is not helping you convince everyone. It’s perfectly acceptable not to snarl and bite even when making an ethical point that reposes at the core of your being. I like to think that’s what I’ve been doing through this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/300 "2002-11-27T02:27:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kirkland1244 \* > **She apparently is. This is a black or white issue. Either you’re in favor of teaching kids that gay people aren’t bad, aren’t perverted, etc, or you’re opposed to it. Either you’re a good person who wants to save gay teens from death, or you’re a bigotted monster.** The hell? The district didn’t know what Wingspan was talking about, therefore was unable to approve it. They don’t know if Wingspan was talking about saving gay teens from death or roasting them on spits. I’m in favor of schools teaching arithmatic. I’m also in favor of someone, somewhere overseeing the curriculum so that we can ensure that children aren’t being taught that 2+2=5. Do you understand this? The speaker’s views didn’t really have much to do with the teacher’s apparent lack of regard for procedure. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Oh yes, because I had so much control over what I was taught, what the curriculumn was, or how horrible the community I was raised in was. You know how many times I heard something about gays in the classroom? > > Not one damn time. The only time you heard about gays was when a bully was calling someone he didn’t like a “fag.” That is wrong. That leaves scars that will never go away – and Jodi and that whore His are more than content to allow that to continue. That makes them evil. > > Kirk \*\* That’s a total straw man. Look, I’m sure you’re schooling sucked. But in this instance the district didn’t want to be held responsible for content they had no say in. This has to do with rogue teachers, not the suppression of GLBTs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853.md?page=16)