# God forbid we teach our kids **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 26, 2002, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853 "2002-11-26T06:46:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/381 "2002-11-27T12:06:58Z")
**Broomstick** , the closed thread rule only applies, as far as I know to threadsclosed by the mod’s own volititon, not by request. You want to talk about this topic, start the thread. I am not backpedaling ion any way–you are just so bent on hating me you ignored everything I said . Here’s a precis. 1. The Catholic Church is hip-deep in an ugly scandal-to wit, that officilas of the church have, at least since the 1980s, known that pedophile priests were hurting children, yetr chose to cover up the problem and attack critics, rather than expel the predators. 2. I feel sympathy for rank and file Catholics who are stuck having to clean up the mess. If I were in their shoes, I’d leave the Church (again), but that’s me. Other people don’t have the same beliefs I do. 3. I feel utter contempt for rank and file Catholics like you who a) deny the problem exists, b) smear critics for exposing the truth. I am not anti-Catholic (any more than I am anti-religion anyway) and I have even defended Catholicism against **His4Ever** ’s Jack Chick-inspired silliness. But don’t let that stop you from hating my guts. You’re not one of the Chrisitans, like **Polycarp** or **Jodi** , who sincerely tries to love their neighbor and obey the dictates of the Holy Spiri–you’re a Pharisee. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/382 "2002-11-27T12:09:46Z")
**Lib** , yes, I beleive that parents are utlimately responsible for their kids’ welfare, and if you genuinely believe that teaching young people to accept gay people as equals is wrong, then it is your duty to remove your child from the school system. It is not your duty to impose your religious beliefs on the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/383 "2002-11-27T12:11:12Z")
😃 Oh the irony! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/384 "2002-11-27T12:19:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kirkland1244 \* > I’ve seen the darkest my life will ever be, October 1998. I have a scar on my wrist to prove it. Gee, Kirk, I’m so happy you survived your darkest hour. My sister didn’t. And I think it’s important to mention my sister, who killed herself on her 34th birthday, well over a decade ago. You rant and rave about “cutting the kid down from the ceiling”. My family has lived it. Alright, she didn’t hang herself, we carried her out of the garage, once we got rid of the fumes and it was safe for those of us who wanted to live to enter. But you get the point. Granted, she wasn’t a “gay teen” killing herself but an adult lesbian. And, the fact is, her family never abadoned her through all the horrible years she struggled with her personal demons. In fact, her widowed partner is still invited to family functions like Thanksgiving, still has dinner with my parents and sisters and I, and in all ways is treated like a surviving spouse. My sister’s conflicts about being homosexual came not from her family but from the messages society outside the family gave her. And, to be honest, I can’t lay the entire blame for her 17 year struggle with clinical depression at the foot of the bigots - had she not been lesibian, she probably still would have had her collection of phobias and her mental illness. After all, straight people kill themselves, too, sometimes. And maybe I could mention the time in junior high I got the crap beat out of me and when I reported it to the authorities I was told “What do you expect? If your sister wasn’t a pervert this wouldn’t happen to you.” So, despite being heterosexual, I do have some small understanding of bigotry towards gays and hate crimes. And I write all of this as preface to stating that you are being an irrational asshole about the whole matter. YES, it’s very important to be supportive of homosexuals, regardless of their age. YES, we need to combat bigotry - but not by being bigots ourselves. But you are going beyond the pale with some of your posts. Even I, who have buried a sister and would never wish the pain of suicide on any family, am finding your stance offensive. Calm down, take a look at yourself, and ask yourself if you are becoming the same sort of hate-filled knee-jerk asshole you hate so very much. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/385 "2002-11-27T12:33:00Z")
**Lib** , do you really believe the recognition of human dignity is an imposition on your religious beliefs? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/386 "2002-11-27T12:33:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > **Broomstick** , the closed thread rule only applies, as far as I know to threads closed by the mod’s own volititon, not by request. You want to talk about this topic, start the thread _As far as you know_ - that’s not good enough. I enjoy posting at the Dope too much to risk being banned. And I doubt I’m the only one who feels that way. You didn’t like the way that thread was going - so you stifled it. If you REALLY wanted to discuss the issue you would have. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/387 "2002-11-27T12:36:32Z")
I’m all for discussing the issues–I am not in favor of getting dogpiled by irrational people like you. If you are het up, by all means, e-mail a mod and ask if you can start a thread. You won’t get banned for asking. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/388 "2002-11-27T12:36:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\ ***Lib** , do you really believe the recognition of human dignity is an imposition on your religious beliefs? \*\* My “religious” beliefs do not condemn adult consentual homosexuality on any level, and have nothing to do with this. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/389 "2002-11-27T12:41:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MrVisible \* > \*\*No offense, **Witch** , but your school district has teachers devoted to special needs children, and classrooms, and a budget. What is your school district doing for gay kids? > > See? There’s a difference. > > And the page I posted earlier was from the Amphi School District Policy Manual, for all levels of school. Fine. You originally identified it differently. > [@](#): > > \*\* > And there was no requirement whatsoever that teachers contact the school board to set up presentations. So, all evidence points to the fact that the teacher followed procedure, and one school board member is throwing a hissy fit, and one TV station took it hook, line, and sinker. \*\* Well…NO I quoted the first two paragraphs of the story that YOU cited. You DID read my quote, right? You DID read where the local administrator (principal) said that he/she was not notified of the speaker? THAT is the problem. The school board member’s comments may or may not be relevant at all…but the story that again, YOU cited clearly states that the teacher is accused of not vetting the speaker with the principal. I’ll ask AGAIN…for the third time…what is the outrage over the reaction? The teacher violated the very policy that **you** cited by not notifying the **principal.** ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/390 "2002-11-27T12:41:26Z")
In any event, I’m going to be away from the computer until tomorrow night, so I will wish everyone, including **Broomstick** , a Happy Thanksgiving. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/391 "2002-11-27T13:09:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kirkland1244 \* > \*\*So I take it you’re against school prayer, then. \*\* And the “god” line in the Pledge, I would assume. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/392 "2002-11-27T13:21:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gomez \* > **would it not, by the same token, be hypocritical to oppose the right of another teacher to book His4Ever to speak at your local school to tell the children there how homosexuality is a sin?** No, one teaches tolerance, the other intolerance. I see a qualitative difference there. Also, as far as I could tell, the presentation was about treating gays(etc) with respect, not about whether it was right or wrong to be gay. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/393 "2002-11-27T13:32:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Witch \* > \*\ ***gobear** …did it EVER cross your mind that some 11 year olds may not even know what “gay” means? And whether you like it or not it’s a term that encompasses sexuality. \*\* As is “marriage” As is “pregnancy” Heck, the title “Mrs.” says quite clearly “I have sex with a man”. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/394 "2002-11-27T13:46:41Z")
No it doesn’t; those things say nothing but that you’re an average, healthy, productive member of society. “Dr. and Mr. McLauchlin” says this. “Mr. and Mr. Potter-McLauchlin” (ah, dreams!), on the other hand, says “pervert pushing his sexuality in my face”. I’ve always noticed. > [@](#): > > One of the problems I have with “politcially correct” is that it is concerned not with changing peoples’ behavior, it wants to change their thinking. Which isn’t that far from an inquisition. An inquisition? Have you ever heard of any political movement that _didn’t_ want to change people’s thinking? Isn’t that why people, you know, talk and argue and persuade and reason? ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/395 "2002-11-27T13:53:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Super Gnat \* > \*\*The newscycle would not have existed, but would a fuss have been raised? Depends on that particular district. More importantly, _should_ a fuss have been raised? I would say yes. I don’t care if they were having a press conference with MLK, Gandhi, and Socrates. They should have followed procedure. \*\* I can’t speak as to that school, but I lived in the Amphitheater school district for the first 25 years of my life, attended Amphi jr and sr high, etc. We had assemblies for all sorts of weird stuff. Heck, one teacher even brought in Yeshua 666 Israel to speak in his class, to give kids a perspective on “what was out there”. For reference, Yeshua is a really whacked out satanist guy who has 666 tattooed on his forehead, and likes to walk around town with his children chained together and drenched in goat’s blood. Of course, I’m sure the school board has changed since then, as I graduated 12 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/396 "2002-11-27T13:59:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jabba \* > \*\*Much has been made in this thread about the age of the students, so I would like to offer a personal anecdote. A friend of mine has a 7-year old daughter and has already raised the topic with her; . \*\* My son is also 7. When he was old enough to ask us “Are Grandpop and Conrad married?” we figured he was old enough to understand that they were, and why. That is largely our view on most things. If he is old enough to ask the question, he is old enough to hear the answer (in an age-appropriate way, obviously. We didn’t tell him “yeah they like to hump like wild rabbits and do it in the butt”). In fact, just last night he ased what a fag was, because I read one of these posts aloud to Rob. We told him that it was a very bad word that mean people use to call gay people. So far he has been quite able to grasp this without a problem, and pretty much shrugged it off as “just more info” and not anything particularly notable. Had we waited until he was in high school to tell him this stuff, no doubt he would have already gathered the idea that it was wrong, bad, or at least A Big Deal from other kids and other sources that he was exposed to. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/397 "2002-11-27T14:11:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gomez \* > \*\ ***Diogenes** The crunch question is would you like them to hold such a talk without your knowing about it? Would you be comfortable with someone teaching your child how to hold a gun, perhaps even showing your child how to hold one first hand? Would you be comfortable with your son firing live ammunition in the name of education? \*\* Yes, because the NRA teaches how to use guns in their educational programs. And your analogy it is especially applicable since in this presentation, they were teaching the kids how to properly lube up the anal sphincter, letting them test the optimum speed and pressure to use on the clitoris first hand, and firing hot loads of semen into each other’s mouths in the name of education. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/398 "2002-11-27T14:14:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*I thonk my Christmadswish this year is \*\* _giggle_ and from Jodi: > [@](#): > > you strike me as the cyberspace equivalent of a frothing-at-the-mouth crazy man screaming insults at strangers on the street. Please don’t take this as any sort of attack or any comment about religion in general, because I don’t mean it that way. I just feel like mentioning that the only frothing-at-the-mouth crazy men screaming at people on the stree that I have ever seen have been bible-waving street preachers telling everyone they are going to hell. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/399 "2002-11-27T14:17:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Witch \* > \*\*Ya know what? > > I wish as much passion were expended on educating children on mental illness, and eradicating the biases there. Very, very prevalent. Sky high suicide rate. Sky high substance abuse rate. Alienation. Brutal treatment from peers. The misconception that all people with mental illnesses are “crazy.” > > I’m sorry, but don’t try to tell me I don’t know about stigma. \*\* As someone who takes daily medication (quite needed, as some old-timers can attest to) and has battled mental illness my entire life, I agree with you. The difference here, however, is that if a presentation were given educating people on the realities of mental illness, there wouldn’t be a public outcry or a bunch of parents writing angry letters or a school board member getting their panties in a wad. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/400 "2002-11-27T14:21:28Z")
I’d also like to mention that at my school, football pep rallies [which were held in the gym during school hours] were mandatory attendance, while the assembly on seat belt safety was not. Says something about the fucked up priorities of schools 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853.md?page=21)