# God forbid we teach our kids **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 26, 2002, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853 "2002-11-26T06:46:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/401 "2002-11-27T14:25:31Z")
Football is sacred. Even in the liberal elite northeast. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/402 "2002-11-27T14:26:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Witch \* > \*\*The schools don’t do JACKSHIT for kids with mental illness, at in my experience. > > Yea, he has an IEP (A special ed plan) which is completely fucking useless. \*\* …and they offer IEP\*s for gay students, too, right? They at least make an attempt, right? Oh, they don’t? Go figure. \*for the record, my son has an IEP also. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/403 "2002-11-27T14:26:43Z")
Damn. That _would_ get physically separated from its antecedent, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/404 "2002-11-27T14:28:22Z")
Hmmm…I seem to have discovered a geographic corollary to Gaudere’s Law. Anyway, my last substantive post was left in the dust about six pages ago, so I’m just playing catch-up on the reading right now. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/405 "2002-11-27T14:38:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lilairen \* > \*\*Erm, actually . . . . > > I’ve seen people seriously argue that depression is nothing more than evidence of moral shortcomings, and getting treatment for it (and related disorders) is evidence that one doesn’t have the strength to overcome one’s difficulties on one’s own (or, for the religious, with the aid of whatever god is considered appropriate). [snip]\*\* Yes, which is why they need to be taught more facts …but do you think that a presentation about the facts of mental illness would be met with the same resistance as one about gay tolerance? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Gobear > > I changed my mind about posting in order to ask you what you meant by this statement in your opening post from the McDonald’s thread: \*\* Because, of course, physical health and knowledge are so similar. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/406 "2002-11-27T14:50:26Z")
I started reading this thread at 8:30 a.m. EST. It is now 9:47 a.m. (I got up a couple of times to get something to drink, close the window, so I haven’t been reading this whole time.) In that time, this thread has gone from 7 pages to 9. My mind is now boggling. Now for something to add to this train wreck of a long thread: Eleven is in no way too early to learn about sexuality. I was ten when my elementary school did the old “separate the boys from the girls to run the puberty filmstrip” thing. I knew about sex before then (I have no idea how I learned though. Soap operas, I think.) Middle school was even more sexually charged than high school. At least in high school we didn’t have kids making out in the bushes during school hours and at after-hours functions. Three girls in my eighth grade class were pregnant. We all knew _exactly_ how that happened. Flash forward about five years. When my best friend’s little sister was in fifth grade, she said her classmates were already talking about who was having sex with who. To claim that normal 11 year olds today don’t know about or understand sex is, IMO, denial at its finest. And now I go back to lurking to see this thread deteriorate further. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/407 "2002-11-27T15:13:21Z")
What is even more amusing is those people that think they can control when their kids learn about sex. Or control anything a child does. Has anybody in history ever raised a kid to think, learn, and be just like the parent wants them to be? Well, after teenage rebellion? ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/408 "2002-11-27T15:32:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kirkland1244 \* > \*\*What rights am I advocating be trampled? Parents have no right to dictate or control the factual content of classes in public schools. \*\* I agree with you there. However, the school district (and only the school district) can dictate and control the curriculum of public school classes. In this case the teacher denied them the right to that control. I don’t care what she was teaching; that sort of behavior is not acceptable. > [@](#): > > People have no right to stick their fingers in their ears, close their eyes and pretend homosexuality doesn’t exist. And no one has any right to make gay teens feel hated. Actually, people do have the right to do those things (re: First Amendment). You may believe them to be morally wrong, but that doesn’t give you the right to trample on their rights to believe what they want to and say what they want to. > [@](#): > > Then you must be for immersive education that drones into kids that there’s nothing wrong with being gay. > [@](#): > > Obviously the rules for the district should be observed. Then why are you arguing with me? > [@](#): > > What a load of bullshit. Pedophilia is NOT a sexuality, it is NOT an orientation, it is the rape of a child by an adult. I get really damn sick of people connecting the two. I left the Catholic Church over this bullshit, and here it is again. I like how you didn’t even quote what I had in parentheses. I am comparing it **only** in that they are both aspects of sexuality that are outside the norm. The reason I used pedophilia was because any other example (being an ethnic minority, being obese, etc.) would doubtless have been rejected on the grounds that it was not _the same_ as being in a sexual (for lack of a better word) minority. I knew also that some people on these boards considered it to be an orientation, so I assumed it as one to make my point. > [@](#): > > Pedophilia is rape – it is based on an unequal distribution of power in the relationship. Pedophilia involves an adult taking advantage and using a child. That is not the case in gay relationships between those of similar ages. Pedophilia is a major criminal act. It is not a crime to be gay. I think it is, in some places. But that’s not the point. As I said above, I wasn’t comparing them in ethical rightness, or general acceptability, or anything like that. I was comparing them only as two forms of sexuality that are outside the norm. > [@](#): > > Also, I don’t want schools saying “it’s right to be gay,” only “it’s not wrong to be gay.” Homosexuality isn’t right or wrong, it is, like all human conditions of existence, morally neutral. Like being right-handed or left-handed, blue-eyed or brown-eyed, etc. But you’ve been saying the whole time that it’s right for homosexuals to act on their feelings. Stop contradicting yourself. > [@](#): > > Homosexuality is also not an action, but a condition, a state of being. Pedophilia is an action, and a criminal one at that. > Totally different, totally uncomparable. I think Guin said something about this. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/409 "2002-11-27T15:51:23Z")
**Super Gnat** , two things: First of all, read the fucking thread. NO DISTRICT RULES WERE VIOLATED. This is a case of one board member getting her panties in a wad. Secondly, pedophilia is in no way analogous to homosexuality, any more than it is analogous to heterosexuality. Pedophilia is not an “orientation,” it is a pathology. Homosexuality is not “outside the norm.” It is considered a “normal” orientation by all contemporary psychiatric standards. Please take the old “pedophile” strawman outside and shoot it in the head please. ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/410 "2002-11-27T16:13:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Broomstick \* > [B > > So, **His4ever** , would you object to a “tolerance program” that teaches tolerance for your viewpoint - that some people view homosexuality as a sin based upon the Bible - but that whether you approve of the acts or not, there is NO justification for violence, bullying, or abuse of a person, sinner or not? Because what I’m getting from the “it’s a sin” camp are objections based on the promotion by these programs that homosexuality is “morally acceptable”, which, to these people, it is NOT and never will be. Any more than many Christian churches are ever going sanction sex outside of marriage, or worshipping multiple gods, or the Muslims are going to suddenly start eating pork chops. > . \*\* Thanks for recognize their are other legitimate views out there even though you many disgree. I would agree to any program that teaches that no one should be mistreated or physicsally abused, etc. Violence isn’t the answer to anything. The program would be allright as long as it didn’t promote the gay lifestyle as being acceptable or okay and acknowledged that some believe it to be wrong as you said very well in your post. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/411 "2002-11-27T16:14:23Z")
I still would like to hear some discussion of the difference between ‘tolerance’ and ‘acceptance’. I haven’t heard anyone come out against tolerance, so I believe we have a consensus that gay people should not be insulted or beaten up. But every time someone demurs from saying that they accept that homosexual behavior is perfectly acceptable, they get blamed for teen gay suicide or get called a bigot. No one is advocating gay bashing. I have even seen most people come out in favor of tolerance education. But that isn’t enough. One side is not content to agree to disagree (and to agree to agree that violence or insults is wrong). What they propose is tolerance education. What they seem to want to bring about is indoctrination that overrules the parents’ right to teach morals. **I am not talking about gay-bashing or violence.** I am talking about how you treat people who you consider are wrong. So I re-ask the question I tried to ask about six pages ago. Is there any distinction between teaching “gay people should be left in peace, same as everybody else” and teaching “gay behavior is absolutely fine, and anyone who thinks differently is a murderous bigot, even if he never hurts a fly”? Are we teaching “everybody is different, and that’s OK”, or “some people think different, and that’s bad”? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/412 "2002-11-27T16:29:54Z")
And I’ve had people (hell, you witnessed it when **JanL** and co. came here!) tell me that if I’d just accept Jesus I wouldn’t need my Paxil-which is only a ruse to drug me up and get my money. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/413 "2002-11-27T16:30:49Z")
> [@](#): > > So I re-ask the question I tried to ask about six pages ago. Is there any distinction between teaching “gay people should be left in peace, same as everybody else” and teaching “gay behavior is absolutely fine, and anyone who thinks differently is a murderous bigot, even if he never hurts a fly”? This is a fair question. However, I think this problem should be dealt with more practically. I do not believe that some sort of “sensitivity training” is sufficient to prevent attempted suicide among at-risk teens. I tend to fall in the “gay behavior is absolutely fine and everyone should just accept it” camp, but I would like to believe that there room for disagreement and ultimately compromise. Like **Shodan** said, there is a consensus for toleration, and there is certainly a consensus for suicide prevention. Is there a way to foster the dignity of gay kids without undermining the (possibly debatable) parental control over their children’s moral/sexual education? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/414 "2002-11-27T16:37:48Z")
**His4Ever** : So it’s okay to tell your kids not to hit or beat up gay kids, which is fine. What we’re talking about here is more than just physical violence, though. Many times in threads about homosexuality, you’ve said that it’s not only your right, but your duty, to make sure that gay folk know at every opportunity you can grab that they’re sinful, evil people who are going to Hell unless they stop being gay. **This** , right here, is what fosters the atmosphere where gay teens feel that they’re worthless and better off dead. Simply saying “don’t beat them up” is not enough. You’re wrong, at the root of the issue, and that’s the simple truth. I’m tired of keeping my mouth shut in the interests of general PC tolerance of all opinions. You’re just wrong. Period. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/415 "2002-11-27T16:47:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\ ***Super Gnat** , two things: > > First of all, read the fucking thread. NO DISTRICT RULES WERE VIOLATED. This is a case of one board member getting her panties in a wad. > \*\* Holy Shit. How about **you** read the damn thread. I’ll review. 1. From the original news story [here](http://www.kgun9.com/story.asp?TitleID=2855&ProgramOption=News)… > [@](#): > > An Amphi School District teacher is under investigation for inviting a certain speaker to talk to middle schoolers without administrative approval, or parental consent. > \_\_\_\_ The principal at Wilson says last Friday- without his knowledge- a member from the group Wingspan came and spoke to about 60 6th, 7th and 8th graders. 1. MrVisible already quoted the relevant DISTRICT POLICY…which states that local school administrators should be kept in the loop on controversial speakers etc… 2. This was **not** just about a damn school board member…it is about a local school administrator who was not properly notified of a controversial speaker. It is about a “possible” violation of district policy. I note with amusement that MrVisible (and you…and others) has yet to retract the repeated assertions that no district policies were violated…when the facts clearly suggest that policy violation IS the potential problem here. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/416 "2002-11-27T16:51:57Z")
Good Lord, how this thread has grown. I have a bunch of points to make, and I’m going to start posting before I finish reading everything, just to make an effort to address what all has been said. > [@](#): > > How many special programs do we need for a tiny minority of the population? As many as are needed. Sorry, Marc, but every person is entitled to his or her own rights, even if she is the only dwarfed half-Sioux/half-Eskimo left-handed wheelchair-bound bipolar Lesbian on the planet. It’s not majoritarian, it’s individual. Re: **Jodi** **Kirkland** , you might note who all is disagreeing with you on your indictment of her – almost all the people whom you can count on to agree with you on gay issues. Add me to that list. **Jodi** is a quite liberal Methodist with a history of posting **in support of gay rights** over the past three years that I’ve known her as an online friend. She is saying something quite different from what you’re attributing to her in your fury at having someone disagree with your stance on an issue with special meaning to you – that parents have a right to vet what special presentations are made to their pubescent children. (Which, in general, I agree with.) She is not saying that gays are evil, nor that gays should not be allowed to make such presentations, nor that she would withdraw her children from such a presentation. (In passing, I get the impression that **Witch** is taking much the same stance.) Her issue seems to me, on reading this, that the parents get a say about what gets told to their kids in an in-school presentation, and the opportunity to have their kids withdrawn from a presentation they find inappropriate. Nothing more than that. From what I know of **Jodi** (and from **Witch** ’s overt statement on page 6) I have reason to believe that both would approve of the OP presentation and encourage their children (excluding **Witch** ’s special-needs child) to attend and pay attention to what’s being said. But they want the right to know and potentially to object to who’s coming in and teaching their children what. And, **Kirk** , do a search: pick a keyword having something to do with gayness, Jodi as poster, forum Great Debates, time unlimited. You’ll be _extremely_ surprised at what you find, I think. **Marc** – Your point on “tolerance” vs. “acceptance” was well stated. I made a similar one in a GD thread two years ago. They do seem to be used synonymously by most users here, despite the clear distinction of meaning between them. Thanks. > [@](#): > > The program would be allright as long as it didn’t promote the gay lifestyle as being acceptable or okay and acknowledged that some believe it to be wrong as you said very well in your post. **His4Ever** , I’d be interested in knowing a bit more about how you would draw your distinction here – and what “promoting the gay lifestyle” would entail in this context. Thanks. > [@](#): > > Who do you think you are to be forcing propaganda promoting the gay lifestyle down people’s throats who don’t want to hear it? Parents have every right to object when this is forced onto their kids. They go to school to learn reading, writing, and arithmatic,etc; not for gays to attempt to force them to support and accept homosexuality. I’m certainly glad I never had children to be growing up in the kind of society we have today. Give society a break with the attempts to force feed gayness on the rest of us. > > _And, later_ > > Not everyone, including parents, believes your “truth” that there’s nothing wrong with being gay. And parents have every right to decide what their children are indoctrinated into. Kids shouldn’t be forced to sit and listen to people coming into the schools and promoting something that’s against their beliefs. You cannot force parents or children into believing that there’s nothing wrong with the gay lifestyle. _ **They should be taught that violence and verbal abuse against people is wrong, I will agree.** _ But not to try to force them to believe something is right that they believe to be wrong. I suspect strongly that you did not get the point of the “tolerance” issue addressed early on in this. The sentence in your second post that is italicized was the key point to the presentation, from what I’ve been able to put together about it from the threads going on here. Not “It’s all right to practice gay sex” but “Do unto others, including gay and transgendered kids your age, as you would have them do unto you.” If you consider the last concept as “promoting homosexuality,” then we need to have some serious words on moral issues. However, I think that it’s simply a case of your misinterpreting what **Mr Visible** meant by “tolerance” in the early part of this thread. * * * There is, however, one critical issue that has not been addressed in re the parental notification hijack – supposing that you (the posters concerned about parental issues) have no objections to the _idea_ of such a presentation but only strong feelings on the rights of parents to be informed… What about the point (I think made by **Hamish** ) that many gay and transgendered teens feel that the only way to keep their parents’ love and affection is to completely hide the fact of their gayness or transgenderedness? Is it inappropriate, as a general question, to make resources available to kids with this problem without their parents’ consent? Note that I’m not speaking of the school presentation issue, but the wider question of how a kid is going to deal with his own self-knowledge and his idea of what the community as a whole, including his family, would think of what he knows about himself. I think there’s a major unanswered question there that needs addressing. **Diogenes** made a salient point: > [@](#): > > The hell it isn’t. the school has a responsibility to protect its students, ALL its students from bigotry and harrassment. I’m not interested in his second statement about “ignorant, bigoted parents.” There’s a key issue of what behavior is acceptable by a student towards another student that is, absolutely, the policy of the school. It does not matter whether **His4Ever** believes that all gay people should be shunned and teaches her (hypothetical) child that – but what **His4EversKid** does vis-a-vis **gocub** (a hypothetical gay kid) and how he/she treats him/her is, emphatically, the province of the school district without parental moral standards entering into the issue, so long as both are students at that school. > [@](#): > > If they want control over what their kids learn, and veto over what their kids are taught, then they should take their kids out of public school. By putting their kids in the free public schools, they are ceding their veto right over education. They want total control? Then find the money to send the kid to the private school that teaches what they want their kids to hear. Which was **Lib** ’s point. However, what about the parent, or the kid, who cannot afford a private school? At what point does a parent’s right to have a say in a child’s education become a matter of money? And why is this moral? > [@](#): > > This is a black or white issue. Either you’re in favor of teaching kids that gay people aren’t bad, aren’t perverted, etc, or you’re opposed to it. Either you’re a good person who wants to save gay teens from death, or you’re a bigotted monster. Nice drawing of a line in the sand. However, as I noted earlier, the question of whether or not a parent may be advised of what is being presented to his/her kids is not the same question as the one you’re raising. It might surprise you how many people who have disagreed with you fall on the “good” side of your last sentence’s line. Including, to my certain knowledge, at least three people you’ve demonized in this thread alone. > [@](#): > > I would like to offer a personal anecdote. A friend of mine has a 7-year old daughter and has already raised the topic with her; something like " Usually boys like to kiss girls and girls like to kiss boys, but sometimes boys like to kiss boys and girls like to kiss girls. You shouldn’t pick on people because of who they like to kiss, because it’s nasty. You don’t like it when people pick on you and it’s the same thing." So far her daughter has not asked for tips on oral sex or shown an unusual interest in dungarees, and has in fact been known to castigate her friends for inappropriate use of the word ‘gay’ as an insult. _ **So I disagree completely with those who say it is impossible to offer information on this topic appropriate to young children.** _ As someone who, not being in a parental capacity but a “trusted adult” to early-school-age children, has had to deal with the same sort of situation, may I applaud you, **Jabba**. And I’ve bolded and italicized your conclusion as a breath of fresh air in this hot-and-heavy thread. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/417 "2002-11-27T16:52:28Z")
Administrative approval and parental consent were NOT FUCKING REQUIRED! ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/418 "2002-11-27T16:53:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\ ***Super Gnat** , two things: > > First of all, read the fucking thread. NO DISTRICT RULES WERE VIOLATED. This is a case of one board member getting her panties in a wad.\*\* Where did you see that? What I saw was the teacher being accused of not following procedure and another teacher saying that teachers at that school normally did not follow procedure. Just because the rules were often violated does not mean that the teacher was right. Now if you point out some previously-disregarded post, then I’ll eat my words. If new evidence shows that the teacher was following procedure, then I’ll echo your sentiment. But from right here I don’t see what you’re talking about. > [@](#): > > Secondly, pedophilia is in no way analogous to homosexuality, any more than it is analogous to heterosexuality. Pedophilia is not an “orientation,” it is a pathology. > > Homosexuality is not “outside the norm.” It is considered a “normal” orientation by all contemporary psychiatric standards. I’m sorry. By “outside the norm” I meant that a majority of humans are not homosexual. Quotes from this thread and others place it at something like 3-10%. Cite cite, and cite. What I was _not_ trying to do was make any judgement whatsoever about homosexuality. And I was attempting to treat pedophilia as an orientation for the purposes of this thread. IANAPedophile, and I don’t know (or want to know) nearly enough about it to determine whether it is a pathology or an orientation. I’m sorry; I was trying to think of a sexuality that outside the norm (by the above definition) that is also not generally accepted. > [@](#): > > Please take the old “pedophile” strawman outside and shoot it in the head please. \*\* I wasn’t using it as a strawman, although it has turned into one. What I was originally trying to say was that if the district can’t approve whatever special thing the teacher is doing, then we don’t know what the teacher is doing. Pedophilia was a bad example, but I was trying to think of something related to sexuality. If you can find something, from this thread or a follow-up link that shows that the teacher was perfectly within bounds, and this is just some random school board member, then I retract all of my comments relating specifically to this school (although the principle still stands). My entire argument was predicated upon the fact that the teacher wasn’t doing what they were supposed to. If the teacher was in fact doing what she was supposed to in bringing in a guest speaker, then the objections of that school board member are incendiary, reprehensible, and self-aggrandizing, and I will join you in desiring to grind his face under our collective heel. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/419 "2002-11-27T16:54:24Z")
> [@](#): > > _From the article_Smith says the teacher made an error in judgement. “The administration would have placed restrictions upon that speaker if the speaker had been allowed to speak at all.” As I eat my words… ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853/420 "2002-11-27T16:56:00Z")
However, she still should have at least gone through the motions of asking for permission before embarking upon her own little civil disobedience. Or passed out pamplets. Or whatever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-forbid-we-teach-our-kids/138853.md?page=22)