# God help you America.... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 11, 2017, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862 "2017-01-11T08:06:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2017, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/101 "2017-01-13T23:42:18Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Enjoy looking back at your past achievements. You’ve hit the pinnacle, and the recent election is the beginning of the slide down into the dissolution of empire. It was nice while it lasted. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I will always be impressed with your past achievements. You have much there to be proud of. Years from now, I plan to visit your launch facilities much the same way I just toured the ruins of a Roman fort in northern England this past summer. It will be cool to look at all of the old artifacts, and remember when you did such cool stuff. You know, I’m curious. What – if it happens over the next four or eight years – would, hypothetically, cause you to scratch your head and say, _yeah, okay; I have to admit, I had that completely wrong; America just kept hitting it out of the park after I made those posts; the country is no further from its pinnacle now than it was then; Americans have more to be proud of; how the heck could I have been so far off the mark?_ ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/102 "2017-01-14T00:00:07Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > You know, I’m curious. > > What – if it happens over the next four or eight years – would, hypothetically, cause you to scratch your head and say, _yeah, okay; I have to admit, I had that completely wrong; America just kept hitting it out of the park after I made those posts; the country is no further from its pinnacle now than it was then; Americans have more to be proud of; how the heck could I have been so far off the mark?_ Excellent question. Here are some thoughts on that, for 8 years hence; Space exploration - major investment in NASA, launches of new probes has occurred, and perhaps a move to a Mars landing. Climate change - recognition of the science of climate change, and a big push towards investment and research in renewable technologies. China and Europe are rapidly moving in this direction, and will become world leaders in 8 years if the US lets it. Education - a modest move upwards in international rankings for K-12 science and math Healthcare - the US has closed the gap significantly in getting better health outcomes for less money - close to what the rest of the western nations enjoy. A combination of the above would certainly make me say “Well, my prediction was totally wrong, thank God!” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/103 "2017-01-14T00:01:15Z")
There was also [one](http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Kal-L_(Earth-10)) where he crashed in Sudetenland, and was raised by Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/104 "2017-01-14T00:07:58Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I read some parallel world comic book on this theme not too long ago. It must have been fairly old: Superbaby had crashed in the USSR. _Red Son_. It’s a classic. In any case, the American Midwest might have once seemed like the moral center of the United States, the somewhat idealized place for a foundling alien to form a moral core. Whether or not this was \*ever \*true, it sure doesn’t seem true lately. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/105 "2017-01-14T00:15:32Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Space exploration - major investment in NASA, launches of new probes has occurred, and perhaps a move to a Mars landing. Let’s save us all the time and money in development: it’s impossible. The astronauts would be exposed to too much radiation and it simply isn’t possible to block this radiation. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/106 "2017-01-14T00:18:11Z")
oops, nm ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/107 "2017-01-14T00:23:25Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Let’s save us all the time and money in development: it’s impossible. The astronauts would be exposed to too much radiation and it simply isn’t possible to block this radiation. “perhaps”. Given amazing new technologies developed by the wonderous nation under Trump. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/108 "2017-01-14T01:10:27Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > “perhaps”. Given amazing new technologies developed by the wonderous nation under Trump. Eh. It’s a good thing that innovation in the private sector in the US is largely independent of who sits in the WH. If you really want to go there, then George W. Bush “gave us” the iPhone. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/109 "2017-01-14T01:16:11Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Let’s save us all the time and money in development: it’s impossible. The astronauts would be exposed to too much radiation and it simply isn’t possible to block this radiation. The lifetime chance of getting cancer for a normal man only goes from 20% to 23% if that person goes to Mars. ---
**Author:** ![doubleminus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5daacb/32.png) [@doubleminus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doubleminus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/110 "2017-01-14T12:40:43Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > I imagine he would if he were aware of it. > > Our colleges and universities are the world’s best. These are what feed our scientific and technological advancements. If we can’t churn out well educated kids from our shitty public school system, then student and H1B visas cover the deficit. Well-educated smart people want to come here. You confidently write “no longer” without it having any basis in fact. > > Most of my list comes from the last 10 - 15 years. It will be just as impressive 10 -15 years from now. What I look forward to is China, Japan, India and the Europeans performing similarly. No, your **few** elite institutions are the world’s best, and this is mainly due to their capability to cherry-pick the best and the beightest from around the world. The \*\*average \*\* US University is really not that great. Now, if foreigners won’t desire to live in the US cause of a nativist mindset, you will quickly lose your scientific and technical edge. Just look at Germany prior to WW2, turning from the leader of the academic world to a nothing in a few years. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/111 "2017-01-14T13:01:33Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > The bottom line is that we’re no longer a single country. uS politics is now a zero sum game where the loser has no reason to work with the victor. Aw, isn’t it cute when some 20-something believes this is anything new? ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/112 "2017-01-14T15:13:06Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > A government agency plan that extends beyond the current budget is a wild-ass guess at best, and past one Congressional election is a hope and a dream - and it doesn’t matter who the President is. NASA’s missions require a great deal of planning. Just getting to their destination requires years of travel. Their biggest plans for 10 -15 years out are probably funded. Also, NASA is in a category of its own politically. Most of the country supports or is at least not irritated by what it does. Its mostly far left and right wing mindsets that do not like NASA and see it as a waste of money. > [@Kimstu](#): > > :dubious: Are you really under the impression that other nations envy us the possession of a sports league in which a couple dozen very large guys mostly stand around waiting, punctuated by brief intervals of frenzied inducement of chronic traumatic encephalopathy? > > I’ve personally got nothing against football for those who like it, as long as they’re doing their best to keep the players as safe as possible. But you’re kidding yourself if you imagine that non-US cultures regard American football as an example of “cool shit” of which they’re “jealous”. I wrote that to irritate. I can’t imagine any person outside the USA being envious of our NFL. The NBA or MLB, maybe, but not the NFL. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Climate change - recognition of the science of climate change, and a big push towards investment and research in renewable technologies. China and Europe are rapidly moving in this direction, and will become world leaders in 8 years if the US lets it. This wouldn’t indicate a decline if not met. Prior to whatever pinnacle you assigned for us, we weren’t the world leaders in these technologies except maybe fusion research. > [@doubleminus](#): > > No, your **few** elite institutions are the world’s best, and this is mainly due to their capability to cherry-pick the best and the beightest from around the world. The \*\*average \*\* US University is really not that great. Now, if foreigners won’t desire to live in the US cause of a nativist mindset, you will quickly lose your scientific and technical edge. Just look at Germany prior to WW2, turning from the leader of the academic world to a nothing in a few years. Why begin your paragraph with “No” when the sentence that follows repeats what I wrote? Where you go wrong is the median US university is fucking fantastic compared to much of the rest of the world. You’re funny. I mean, the average college/university in the US is represented by the state school system. These state school systems produce more research than the rest of the world combined. You really don’t appreciate the enormity of how successful the USA has been and continues to be. Places where the USA seems to be “in decline” or has “fallen behind” are usually just examples of the USA performing the same as it has but other nations are kicking ass in their own right. I find nothing wrong with that and it gives me hope for the future. At long last, the foreigners are becoming civilized! Maybe they will stop having street fights after Soccer games and learn to be civilized and watch Football! ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/113 "2017-01-14T15:36:49Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Aw, isn’t it cute when some 20-something believes this is anything new? It’s even cuter when some douche doesn’t realize he’s reading the posts of a 50 year old man who’s worked in conflict zones for the past twenty years and has actually taken real risks in his life for what he believes in. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/114 "2017-01-14T15:57:25Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Trump will not be impeached before March 15th, 2019. > The GOP will be blindly destructive until the end. > I suspect we will see a shift to Democrats in Mid-terms. > Assuming he lives. That doctor of his was & is lying like crazy. I don’t want to start another thread about rump but I want to believe he will quit. besides not being as fun as he thought, being president is stressful. other men have gone gray - this one will keep gaining weight. I think he is fatter already but can’t find anything about it - a google just brings up all the fat shaming he has done to other people. he Is fat - but is he getting fatter? and will he - finally - not be able to pretend he isn’t and QUIT being the president because of it? I hope so. I’m OK with death by VD also, of course. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/115 "2017-01-14T16:04:50Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > I don’t want to start another thread about rump but I want to believe he will quit. besides not being as fun as he thought, being president is stressful. other men have gone gray - this one will keep gaining weight. > > I think he is fatter already but can’t find anything about it - a google just brings up all the fat shaming he has done to other people. > > he Is fat - but is he getting fatter? and will he - finally - not be able to pretend he isn’t and QUIT being the president because of it? > > I hope so. I’m OK with death by VD also, of course. 😛 Smart money is on aneurysm. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/116 "2017-01-14T16:25:24Z")
I think there’s a good chance one of his red state followers will try to kill him when they realize he has no intention to follow through with half his promises. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/117 "2017-01-14T17:42:08Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think there’s a good chance one of his red state followers will try to kill him when they realize he has no intention to follow through with half his promises. So far it looks like the only promise of his that Trump intends to follow through is legislation specifically against Muslims. There’s also a chance that he’ll try to follow through on punishing Ms. Clinton even though he already admitted to telling his base he just told him that to get their votes. I ask again: How can anyone support that moron Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/118 "2017-01-14T17:50:19Z")
I’m hoping Trump sticks to his strict diet of overcooked meat, KFC, and bacon cheeseburgers. In addition to fattening the Donald up to risible levels, that’s the regimen that killed Harold Washington (Mayor of Chicago) by age 65. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/119 "2017-01-14T17:51:57Z")
By being equally moronic, and cowardly to boot. Also, emails. ---
**Author:** ![doubleminus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5daacb/32.png) [@doubleminus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doubleminus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862/120 "2017-01-14T18:03:25Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > [QUOTE= Inbred Mm domesticus] > > I imagine he would if he were aware of it. > > Our colleges and universities are the world’s best. These are what feed our scientific and technological advancements. If we can’t churn out well educated kids from our shitty public school system, then student and H1B visas cover the deficit. Well-educated smart people want to come here. You confidently write “no longer” without it having any basis in fact. > > Most of my list comes from the last 10 - 15 years. It will be just as impressive 10 -15 years from now. What I look forward to is China, Japan, India and the Europeans performing similarly. [QUOTE=doubleminus] No, your few elite institutions are the world’s best, and this is mainly due to their capability to cherry-pick the best and the beightest from around the world. The average US University is really not that great. Now, if foreigners won’t desire to live in the US cause of a nativist mindset, you will quickly lose your scientific and technical edge. Just look at Germany prior to WW2, turning from the leader of the academic world to a nothing in a few years. [/QUOTE] Why begin your paragraph with “No” when the sentence that follows repeats what I wrote? Where you go wrong is the median US university is fucking fantastic compared to much of the rest of the world. You’re funny. I mean, the average college/university in the US is represented by the state school system. These state school systems produce more research than the rest of the world combined. You really don’t appreciate the enormity of how successful the USA has been and continues to be. [/QUOTE] You haven’t really read (or comprehended) what I wrote. Read again. In any case, [here is an article](http://https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/29/upshot/americans-think-we-have-the-worlds-best-colleges-we-dont.html?_r=0) about this: > [@](#): > > International university rankings, moreover, have little to do with education. Instead, they focus on universities as research institutions, using metrics such as the number of Nobel Prize winners on staff and journal articles published. A university could stop enrolling undergraduates with no effect on its score. > > We see K-12 schools and colleges differently because we’re looking at two different yardsticks: the academic performance of the whole population of students in one case, the research performance of a small number of institutions in the other. > > American College Graduates, Trailing in Math Skills > Average score on numeracy test, among 16- to 29-year-olds with bachelor’s degree > > Austria > Flanders (Belgium) > Finland > Czech Republic > Japan > Sweden > Germany > Netherlands > Estonia > France > Average > Slovak Republic > Denmark > Norway > Canada > Korea > United States > Australia > England/N. Ireland > Ireland > Poland > Cyprus > Italy > Spain > Russian Federation > > Source: Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development > The fair way to compare the two systems, to each other and to systems in other countries, would be to conduct something like a PISA for higher education. That had never been done until late 2013, when the O.E.C.D. published exactly such a study. > > The project is called the Program for the International Assessment of Adult Competencies (known as Piaac, sometimes called “pee-ack”). In 2011 and 2012, 166,000 adults ages 16 to 65 were tested in the O.E.C.D. countries (most of Europe along with the United States, Canada, Australia, Japan and South Korea) and Cyprus and Russia. > > Like PISA, Piaac tests people’s literacy and math skills. Because the test takers were adults, they were asked to use those skills in real-world contexts. They might, for example, be asked to read a news article and an email, each describing a different innovative method of improving drinking water quality in Africa, and identify the sentence in each document that describes a criticism common to both inventions. The test also included a measure of “problem-solving in technology-rich environments,” reflecting the nature of modern work. > > As with the measures of K-12 education, the United States battles it out for last place, this time with Italy and Spain. Countries that traditionally trounce America on the PISA test of 15-year-olds, such as Japan and Finland, also have much higher levels of proficiency and skill among adults. > > … > > While American college graduates are far more knowledgeable than American nongraduates, creating a substantial “wage premium” for diploma holders, they look mediocre or worse compared to their college-educated peers in other nations. > > This reality should worry anyone who believes — as many economists do — that America’s long-term prosperity rests in substantial part on its store of human capital. The relatively high pay of American workers will start to erode as more jobs are exposed to harsh competition in global labor markets. It will be increasingly dangerous to believe that only our K-12 schools have serious problems. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-help-you-america/776862.md?page=7)