# God Helps Widdlest Sniper Victim Recover **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 13, 2002, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578 "2002-12-13T18:59:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/1 "2002-12-13T18:59:06Z")
I’m not putting this in the Pit, as it’s more eye-rolling than steam-coming-out-of-ears: WASHINGTON (AP) - The youngest victim of the Washington-area sniper attacks says he feels great and can’t wait to get back on the basketball court with his friends. Iran Brown, 13, told reporters at Children’s Hospital that **he credits God with his remarkable recovery** from a bullet wound that shredded his organs and threatened his life . . . “He’s recovering well,” said Dr. Martin Eichelberger, adding that Iran is one of the best patients he’s ever had. Eichelberger said the only medication Iran needs now is an antibiotic because his spleen was removed. He said **Iran’s good health, his family’s support and the steps taken by the first medical workers who treated him were largely responsible for his recovery**. —What’s _that_, Dr. Martin Eicherberger? “Medical workers,” my eye! Obviously, God picked this kid as one of the few sniper victims to survive just to show how unworthy the _others_ were! ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/2 "2002-12-13T19:04:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*I’m not putting this in the Pit, as it’s more eye-rolling than steam-coming-out-of-ears: > > WASHINGTON (AP) - The youngest victim of the Washington-area sniper attacks says he feels great and can’t wait to get back on the basketball court with his friends. Iran Brown, 13, told reporters at Children’s Hospital that **he credits God with his remarkable recovery** from a bullet wound that shredded his organs and threatened his life . . . “He’s recovering well,” said Dr. Martin Eichelberger, adding that Iran is one of the best patients he’s ever had. Eichelberger said the only medication Iran needs now is an antibiotic because his spleen was removed. He said **Iran’s good health, his family’s support and the steps taken by the first medical workers who treated him were largely responsible for his recovery**. > > —What’s _that_, Dr. Martin Eicherberger? “Medical workers,” my eye! Obviously, God picked this kid as one of the few sniper victims to survive just to show how unworthy the _others_ were! \*\* I’m confused. Is this a sideways shot at a 13 year old kid’s beliefs? A belief in God’s healing power does not preclude a belief in the necessity of competent medical care (I mean there **are** Catholic hospitals, for example) What exactly is the cause for the eye rolling? ---
**Author:** ![super\_head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@super\_head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/super_head)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/3 "2002-12-13T19:08:22Z")
Nope, Eve, it’s true - God was all over the sniper attacks. For further reference, go [**here**](http://www.ravingatheist.com/October%202002%20Archives.htm#oct2402) - an excerpt: > [@](#): > > The first sniper victim shot in Virginia credits God’s intervention with saving her life, according to her sister, Debbie Gainey. The victim, whose name has not been released, revealed that she turned aside a moment before she was wounded by a bullet in a Fredericksburg parking lot, thus averting a shot directly in the middle of her back. “Normally, I stand completely motionless in parking lots for hours,” she explained. “However, that particular day I was miraculously in motion, having decided, inexplicably, to avoid getting run over by all the shopping traffic and walk to my own car.” The victim added that she believes that God must have a purpose for her and that she is so fucking special and that God must hate all of those worthless sniper victims who he let die. ---
**Author:** ![super\_head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@super\_head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/super_head)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/4 "2002-12-13T19:11:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > I’m confused. Is this a sideways shot at a 13 year old kid’s beliefs? A belief in God’s healing power does not preclude a belief in the necessity of competent medical care (I mean there **are** Catholic hospitals, for example) What exactly is the cause for the eye rolling? I’d say that, yes, it’s a shot at the kid’s belief - and that the argument that an all-powerful God uses human doctors to do his work (when he could just snap his fingers, or whatever he has to snap) looks a lot like the human doctors did it without his help. I mean, when the doctors can’t save one, does God get mad at them for trying to go against his “apparent” will? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/5 "2002-12-13T19:12:33Z")
It precludes belief for me, and apparently Eve as well. I find it ridiculous and insulting that people would credit the child’s recovery to God rather than the thousands of hours of training, dedication, technology, and judgement of human doctors. Oh, but God trained the doctors! No, wait, God trained the doctors’ teachers! No, wait, he INSPIRED them! Bah. What inspired them was common human compassion and professionalism, and deep-rooted confidence in their skills and training. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/6 "2002-12-13T19:17:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ogre \* > \*\*It precludes belief for me, and apparently Eve as well. I find it ridiculous and insulting that people would credit the child’s recovery to God rather than the thousands of hours of training, dedication, technology, and judgement of human doctors. > > Oh, but God trained the doctors! No, wait, God trained the doctors’ teachers! No, wait, he INSPIRED them! > > Bah. What inspired them was common human compassion and professionalism, and deep-rooted confidence in their skills and training. \*\* OK Theists dumb. Praying for healing when someone is sick or suffering, dumb. Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/7 "2002-12-13T19:17:24Z")
As I recall, the boy’s aunt credits the fact that she didn’t wait for an ambulance and drove the kid to the hospital herself. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/8 "2002-12-13T19:23:28Z")
Well, who was in the OR, getting their hands dirty with that kid’s blood, **beagle**? Was it some scared, sweaty, concerned doc, or was it God? And if it was God, why didn’t he just instantly heal the kid? I won’t go so far as to say theists’ beliefs are dumb, but I will say this: I’ll bet that if all other things were equal, the recovery rate for patients that have been prayed for is quite similar to those that haven’t. If it makes you feel better, though, I can’t really say it’s “dumb.” ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/9 "2002-12-13T19:24:37Z")
The boy’s thirteen! If I’d been shot at the age of _thirteen_ and lived, I would have credited my deity of choice, too. I didn’t develop my quasi-atheist views until I was an adult. Cut the kid some slack, please. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/10 "2002-12-13T19:24:52Z")
Geez, you’d think a thirteen year old who just got out of the hospital would have his whole theology worked out before making such a statement. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/11 "2002-12-13T19:26:34Z")
“As I recall, the boy’s aunt credits the fact that she didn’t wait for an ambulance and drove the kid to the hospital herself.” —God: “_What?_ She said _that?!_ Bitch. Here, lemme get some o’ these lightning bolts out . . .” ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/12 "2002-12-13T19:29:21Z")
Well, truthfully, I certainly was asking some hard questions by the time I was 13. His age aside, however, I’ll bet there are any number of people out there right now thinking “What a miracle!” A miracle. Uh huh. Yeah. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/13 "2002-12-13T19:32:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\*Geez, you’d think a thirteen year old who just got out of the hospital would have his whole theology worked out before making such a statement. :rolleyes: \*\* Or…you know at least **clarify** his theological stance with a detailed acknowledgement of the role that the skilled EMS workers, the skilled nurses, the doctors, the lab techs, modern antibiotics…Alexander Fleming and penicillin …played in his recovery. Otherwise, we’ll think he’s some ignorant rube… ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/14 "2002-12-13T19:43:57Z")
The kid must feel pretty guilty that god chose to save him and he let all those other victims die. I’d be keepin’ my yap shut if I was him. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/15 "2002-12-13T19:49:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > \*\*Or…you know at least **clarify** his theological stance with a detailed acknowledgement of the role that the skilled EMS workers, the skilled nurses, the doctors, the lab techs, modern antibiotics…Alexander Fleming and penicillin …played in his recovery. > > Otherwise, we’ll think he’s some ignorant rube… \*\* “I sure am glad the doctors were able to save my life. Thank you.” Sounds reasonable to me. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/16 "2002-12-13T19:52:45Z")
So now we have to brief little kids before they get out of the hospital. “Please don’t mention anything about your religion of choice as it may offend some non-theists.” His thanking God for being alive does not discount what the doctors did. For all you or I know, he could strongly believe that God gave the doctors the wisdom and strength to help him survive. Nor did the child mention that he was ‘chosen’ by God to survive. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/17 "2002-12-13T19:54:48Z")
Oh, come _on_, **jar** and **beagle** —it’s not like I put this in the Pit. Surely you will allow me some atheist eye-rolling? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/18 "2002-12-13T19:55:50Z")
He had to be ‘chosen,’ didn’t he? I mean, after all, so many others died. And since we’re laying responsibility on God for those acts he had the power to either change or prevent (like, say, the kid dying of a bullet wound,) well, then God would have to be responsible for the sniper too, right? ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/19 "2002-12-13T20:01:27Z")
And Ogre, you seriously believe that a thirteen year old with a bunch of microphones shoved in his face thought all of that out before saying “Thank God I’m alive?” or whatever? GIVE ME A BREAK. And Eve, you can eye roll all you like, but I don’t particularly care for the intimation that those of us who thank God for our successes in life are negating the works of human beings. I thank God for helping me pull out of a depression, but that doesn’t mean I don’t recognize the work of the doctors and medication. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Carnage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/max_carnage/32/12775_2.png) [@Max\_Carnage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Carnage)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/20 "2002-12-13T20:03:07Z")
How come no one raises this much of a stink when, say, some sports star thanks God first. Lord forbid, a kid should do it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578.md?page=2)