# God Helps Widdlest Sniper Victim Recover **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 13, 2002, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578 "2002-12-13T18:59:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/61 "2002-12-13T22:05:14Z")
“Thank you, Eve, for sneering at this ‘widdle’ kid.” —Hey, anytime, Rufus! It’s my pleasure. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/62 "2002-12-13T22:05:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > And thank you … anyone else I missed who joined in the ridicule of this kid for not having been sufficiently PC in his thanks. I think that you either are doing selective reading or else are a touch sensitive on the subject. Where did I ridicule the child in the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/63 "2002-12-13T22:07:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eonwe \* > I do not believe in God, but I don’t understand why one would have to be happy and joyous at everything God did. Because God is all-knowing, and everything he does is for my own good, even if the reason is not apparent to me. ---
**Author:** ![super\_head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@super\_head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/super_head)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/64 "2002-12-13T22:07:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > Thank you, **Eve** , for sneering at this ‘widdle’ :rolleyes: kid. And thank you, **super\_head** , **Ogre** , **Kalhoun** , **CRorex** , **Inky-** , **Arnold Winkelreid** , and anyone else I missed who joined in the ridicule of this kid for not having been sufficiently PC in his thanks. Hmmm, I don’t recall saying the kid should be PC in his thanks - he’s free to say whatever he likes about it. **As are we**. Additionally, while the child might have been the jumping off point (and, no, I don’t think he should have his old theological world view sorted out by age 13 given the indoctrination I’m betting he has received) - there’s the broader issue of adults who do the same thing, presenting the same problems - and our little 13 year old friend seems to be well on his way to being one of those adults. OK, everyone come back in 5 years and let’s try this again when he’s fair game. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/65 "2002-12-13T22:07:49Z")
Arnold wrote: > [@](#): > > Libertarian - then that would relate to the post that I snuck in there - if we can’t know what is or is not God’s will, then the boy is being presumptuous and assuming facts not in evidence, which, at the SDMB, would be frowned upon. Presumptuous? Assuming facts not in evidence? Has anyone told you that he’s _thirteen_? What did you expect? Thomas Aquinas? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/66 "2002-12-13T22:09:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > \*\*Because God is all-knowing, and everything he does is for my own good, even if the reason is not apparent to me. \*\* But you’re equating “everything He does” and “He does everything”. He didn’t shoot the boy. It seems to me that you’re being presumptuous and assuming facts not in evidence. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/67 "2002-12-13T22:10:43Z")
_Nobody_ expects Thomas Aquinas! His chief weapons are surprise . . . ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/68 "2002-12-13T22:12:13Z")
Actually, I believe that his age was previously mentioned in the thread. But I think I am in my rights to say that a statement is showing poor logic even if it’s by a 13-year-old, and if the 13-year-old were making an erroneous statement at the SDMB, I would correct him despite his tender age. I would **not** , however, tell him “how could you not know better than that?” ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/69 "2002-12-13T22:14:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > He didn’t shoot the boy. By that logic, he didn’t save the boy either. ---
**Author:** ![CRorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CRorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CRorex)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/70 "2002-12-13T22:15:42Z")
Jar: we don’t know what the kid said because lets face it, have a report write that the child thanks god for surviving will sound the best to readers. Which sounds better: Small child credits recovery to god. Or small child credits skilled doctors who saved his life with his recovery. The first one sounds better. But damnit, the doctors did all the work. And I still think we need to throw some kudos to the people who donate blood. Jodi: It’s just how I’d like the world to run. You give your heartfelt thanks to those who try to do something for you. And it’s how I’d try to raise children. Someone saves your life, you make sure you express your thanks to them. And if you say how rude in a jarjarbinks voice it’s even funnier 😃 It’s even funnier if you picture JarJarBinks as an angel comming into the child’s room and smacking him with a Chick Tract then saying it. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/71 "2002-12-13T22:17:53Z")
> [@](#): > > And thank you … anyone else I missed who joined in the ridicule of this kid for not having been sufficiently PC in his thanks. PC? Where the hell did you get “PC?” You or anyone else is perfectly welcome to say anything you want to about God, but I’m certainly able to state my belief as well. And that belief is that God had nothing to do with his recovery. It had everything, however, to do with skilled surgery, medical technology, the considered application of pharmaceuticals, and steady oversight by skilled medical personnel. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/72 "2002-12-13T22:22:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > \*\*By that logic, he didn’t save the boy either. \*\* Precisely. We here in the human world tend to hold someone responsible for those things that person had direct ability to change or prevent. Should we not hold God up to that standard as well? He could have prevented the kid from being shot. Why didn’t he? He could have instantaneously healed the kid. Why didn’t he? Seems to me, by all logic, even if the child recovers AND God had a direct hand in it, he’s STILL responsible for the terror, pain, and difficult recovery period of the child, to say nothing of deep, lasting psychological damage. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/73 "2002-12-13T22:23:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > \*\*By that logic, he didn’t save the boy either. \*\* Not so! Not having done X does not imply not having done Y. ---
**Author:** ![super\_head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@super\_head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/super_head)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/74 "2002-12-13T22:23:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ogre \* > And that belief is that God had nothing to do with his recovery. It had everything, however, to do with skilled surgery, medical technology, the considered application of pharmaceuticals, and steady oversight by skilled medical personnel. What about ET? Could have been that alien, what with his glowing finger and heartlight and whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/75 "2002-12-13T22:30:42Z")
Damn it, Eve! Here I am enjoying this righteous indignation fest and you have to go and drop one the finest non-sequiturs I’ve ever seen right into the middle of it. I hope you’re happy with yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/76 "2002-12-13T22:33:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > \*\*Actually, I believe that his age was previously mentioned in the thread. But I think I am in my rights to say that a statement is showing poor logic even if it’s by a 13-year-old, and if the 13-year-old were making an erroneous statement at the SDMB, I would correct him despite his tender age. I would **not** , however, tell him “how could you not know better than that?” \*\* Quite honestly, Arnold, I think that your reasoning here is far below exemplary and even below par. He has made no “erroneous statement”. Frankly, the OP of this thread is more like a Christian bashing rant, though a weak one to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/77 "2002-12-13T22:33:25Z")
So Libertarian, you are claiming that: - boy surviving shooting: act of God - boy being shot: not an act of God How do you know that? ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/78 "2002-12-13T22:33:57Z")
While I have no problem with the boy saying what he said, the media coverage of the “miracle” is extremely offensive. It belittles the work of the **people** who saved the boys life, and it implies that he is somehow more “Worthy” than those who died. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/79 "2002-12-13T22:36:05Z")
But Libertarian - won’t you excuse me because I’ve never studied logic formally? How rude of you to point my deficiencies! ☹ Saying “thank you, X, for performing action Y”, though a worthy expression of gratitude, is in my estimate an erroneous statement if X has not performed action Y, or if it is impossible to know wheter or not X performed action Y. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578/80 "2002-12-13T22:37:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > \*\*So Libertarian, you are claiming that: > > - boy surviving shooting: act of God > - boy being shot: not an act of God > How do you know that? \*\* Don’t put your words in my mouth. I’m not claiming _anything_ except that you cannot ascribe either one. It is _you_ who established the metaphysical assertion. What I said was that not doing X doesn’t imply not doing Y. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-helps-widdlest-sniper-victim-recover/142578.md?page=5)