# God is Dead, or so claimed the 1966 New York Times **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 25, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280 "2010-10-25T14:11:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Scubaqueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@Scubaqueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scubaqueen)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/1 "2010-10-25T14:11:51Z")
Lifted from Yahoo!Answers: _‘New York Times, Jan 9, 1966, page 146: the front page banner of the New York Times said in giant letters: God Is Dead…! It was one of the most controversial news stories of all time, and many people actually called the paper asking for confirmation.’_ I just listened to ‘Levon,’ by Elton John, which has the lyric about God is dead, as per the NY Times, which suggested this thread. While I’m old enough to actually remember seeing the headline when I lived near New York as a kid, I don’t remember what prompted it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/2 "2010-10-25T14:18:19Z")
The actual headline was **“God is Dead” Debate Widens**. It was about Emory University theology professor Thomas Altizer and theologians like him, who were trying to work out a sort of “post-God” theology. But what’s the General Question here? ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/3 "2010-10-25T14:29:47Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > But what’s the General Question here? I think the question is “what prompted that headline,” and you seemed to answer it. The Times was not reporting an event. They were reporting on a growing movement within American theology. Time Magazine had [a similarly provocative headline on its cover](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is_God_Dead%3F) a few months later. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/4 "2010-10-25T14:40:49Z")
I thought this question sounded familiar, and I think it’s because of [this old thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4545189) on the same subject. (It might have been revived recently by a spammer, which is why it’s so familiar.) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/5 "2010-10-25T14:41:57Z")
He hasn’t been returning _my_ calls, anyway… ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/6 "2010-10-25T14:46:18Z")
The front page of the Times never said in large letters “God Is Dead.” That was the cover of the April 8, 1966 Times magazine. (See the Times obituary of [John T. Elson](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/18/business/media/18elson.html). > [@](#): > > The quiet, studious Mr. Elson, who died on Sept. 7 at the age of 78, was an unlikely bomb-thrower, and his article, for those who ventured past the cover, reflected his scholarly bent. Meekly titled on the inside as “Toward a Hidden God,” it began: “Is God dead? It is a question that tantalizes both believers, who perhaps secretly fear that he is, and atheists, who possibly suspect that the answer is no.” > > For the next six pages, readers were guided through thickets of theological controversy and a shifting religious landscape. Profound changes taking place in the relationship of believers to their faith were often expressed through the words of people, both eminent and ordinary, grappling with the same fundamental problems. Simone de Beauvoir, Claude Lévi-Strauss, Billy Graham and William Sloane Coffin were quoted. So were a Tel Aviv streetwalker, a Dutch charwoman and a Hollywood screenwriter. > > More than 30 Time foreign correspondents were also involved in the project, conducting some 300 interviews to measure contemporary thinking about God around the world. > > “Secularization, science, urbanization — all have made it comparatively easy for the modern man to ask where God is and hard for the man of faith to give a convincing answer, even to himself,” Mr. Elson wrote. The Times article that might have prompted that, and I say prompted because other media slavishly copy whatever the Times does, was one by Times religion editor John Cogley titled [‘God Is Dead’ Debate Widens](http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10B12F73D5D15768FDDA00894D9405B868AF1D3) on January 8, 1966. > [@](#): > > The clearest thing about the small but much-publicized “God is Dead” movement in Protestant theology is its catchy, provocative title. After that, all is subtlety, the specialized technical language of the academy, professional abstruseness and lay bafflement. So a theological movement already existed in 1965 and had taken that phrase from Nietzsche as a catchy shorthand. The Times noted it, but hardly made a big deal about it. The article was buried on p. 146. It was the Time magazine cover that made the big splash. Does either of these incidents match up with the song lyrics? > [@](#): > > He was born a pauper to a pawn on a Christmas day > When the New York Times said God is dead > And the war’s begun > Alvin Tostig has a son today Not very well. Unless the song is taking place in the far future, Levon had to be born a long time ago since he is a war veteran with a son. It could be in the far future, because that son, Jesus, wants to go to Venus. We don’t know if that’s just a kid’s imagination or a reality in that future time. As a writer, I say Bernie Taupin used New York Times because Time magazine doesn’t fit the scansion. However, all this is getting away from the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/7 "2010-10-25T15:04:34Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Not very well. Unless the song is taking place in the far future, Levon had to be born a long time ago since he is a war veteran with a son. It could be in the far future, because that son, Jesus, wants to go to Venus. So the 1966 New York Times article works. A war veteran could certainly have a son born on Christmas Day, 1965, and then the NYT article comes out two weeks later. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/8 "2010-10-25T15:14:09Z")
Nitpick: That was a 1966 _Time Magazine_ article, not a 1966 New York Times article. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/9 "2010-10-25T15:15:05Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Nitpick: That was a 1966 _Time Magazine_ article, not a 1966 New York Times article. It’s both. Haven’t you read the thread? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/10 "2010-10-25T15:30:46Z")
You’re right. But then this bit from Yahoo Answers > [@Scubaqueen](#): > > Lifted from Yahoo!Answers: _‘New York Times, Jan 9, 1966, page 146: the front page banner of the New York Times said in giant letters: God Is Dead…! It was one of the most controversial news stories of all time, and many people actually called the paper asking for confirmation.’_ is misleading, since it suggests that the New York Times stated “God is Dead” as a fact when the headline actually reads “Religion; ‘God Is Dead’ Debate Widens” and is a more general discussion of theology. Plus it’s not really a new story, but instead is the religion column. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/11 "2010-10-25T15:37:26Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The front page of the Times never said in large letters “God Is Dead.” That was the cover of the April 8, 1966 Times [sic] magazine. TIme didn’t exactly say that either. Per the link in post #3, the Time Magazine cover said “Is God Dead?” The article itself was titled, “Toward a Hidden God.” ---
**Author:** ![jbaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jbaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbaker)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/12 "2010-10-25T16:00:51Z")
On Sunday, January 9, 1966, the New York Times ran the headline ‘God Is Dead’ (single quotes are in the headline). It was on page 146, the same page that had the article ‘God Is Dead’ Debate Widens. The text below the headline began, “The following ritual was presented during a chapel service at a small denominational college in the South. It was designed to explore in litugical form the experience of the “death of God.”” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/13 "2010-10-25T16:51:44Z")
> [@jbaker](#): > > On Sunday, January 9, 1966, the New York Times ran the headline ‘God Is Dead’ (single quotes are in the headline). It was on page 146, the same page that had the article ‘God Is Dead’ Debate Widens. The text below the headline began, “The following ritual was presented during a chapel service at a small denominational college in the South. It was designed to explore in litugical form the experience of the “death of God.”” Does no one bother to read the thread before posting? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![jbaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jbaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbaker)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/14 "2010-10-25T17:27:04Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Does no one bother to read the thread before posting? 😕 What did I miss? The New York Times did, in fact, have a “God Is Dead” headline, and this is information that doesn’t seem to be anywhere prior in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/15 "2010-10-25T17:46:00Z")
In one of those lovely little jokes in Ira Levin’s _Rosemary’s Baby_, she picks up the _Time_ magazine proclaiming "God Is Dead while in the waiting room of her obsetrician(a/k/a the witch doctor). ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/16 "2010-10-25T17:58:28Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > So the 1966 New York Times article works. A war veteran could certainly have a son born on Christmas Day, 1965, and then the NYT article comes out two weeks later. Except that it’s Levon who was born then, not his son. ---
**Author:** ![KlondikeGeoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3e96dc/32.png) [@KlondikeGeoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KlondikeGeoff)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/17 "2010-10-25T18:51:14Z")
God is not dead. He just got so disgusted with Earthlings that he moved on to another universe. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/18 "2010-10-25T19:12:11Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The Times article that might have prompted that, and I say prompted because other media slavishly copy whatever the Times does, was one by Times religion editor John Cogley titled [‘God Is Dead’ Debate Widens](http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10B12F73D5D15768FDDA00894D9405B868AF1D3) on January 8, 1966. > So a theological movement already existed in 1965 and had taken that phrase from Nietzsche as a catchy shorthand. The Times noted it, but hardly made a big deal about it. The article was buried on p. 146. > > It was the Time magazine cover that made the big splash. > > Does either of these incidents match up with the song lyrics? > Not very well. Unless the song is taking place in the far future, Levon had to be born a long time ago since he is a war veteran with a son. It could be in the far future, because that son, Jesus, wants to go to Venus. We don’t know if that’s just a kid’s imagination or a reality in that future time. > > As a writer, I say Bernie Taupin used New York Times because Time magazine doesn’t fit the scansion. However, all this is getting away from the OP. Well, the Orthodox Christmas as marked on the Old Calendar (by Russian Orthodox and others) is January 7th. And since newspapers typically report the news of the previous day, this fits entirely. Pure poetry, it is. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/19 "2010-10-25T19:22:23Z")
> [@jbaker](#): > > What did I miss? The New York Times did, in fact, have a “God Is Dead” headline, and this is information that doesn’t seem to be anywhere prior in the thread. Exapno wrote this in post #6, complete with a link to the article. Dewey expanded on this in post #10. You basically repeated what they said. ---
**Author:** ![jbaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jbaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbaker)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280/20 "2010-10-25T20:05:43Z")
> [@anson2995](#): > > Exapno wrote this in post #6, complete with a link to the article. Dewey expanded on this in post #10. You basically repeated what they said. No, that’s not at all what those posts say. Both discuss the article headlined “‘God Is Dead’ Debate Widens,” published on page 146 of the New York Times on January 9, 1966 (not January 8, as stated in Exapno Mapcase’s post). But there were two articles published on the subject on page 146 that day. The other article actually did have the headline “‘God Is Dead.’” So it is true that the New York Times, roughly at Christmas time, said that “God Is Dead” (although the headline was itself a quotation, but that’s a subtlety that one can safely expect to be lost on the public). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-is-dead-or-so-claimed-the-1966-new-york-times/558280.md?page=2)