# God must be a sadist **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 25, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080 "2012-12-25T01:04:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/61 "2013-01-11T02:20:53Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > . . . What’s there to be sad about? Why not consider yourself lucky because one particular X chromosome hit the egg in the womb and you were born. Y would you say that? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/62 "2013-01-11T15:36:49Z")
You may say they are deluded, but I would say it’s common sense. I will go back to Taoism, and they do speak about the good and bad. But they look at it differently. You may think that they are callused but it makes sense. If we could live forever, we would not value life as much. Today would be just another day along with many other days that we expect to live. But when you no longer take life for granted, that’s when you really live. Look at good and evil in the same many. Look at pain and pleasure the same way. If we did not experience our own pain or the pain of others, then we would not know pleasure and we would not know pain. The very fact others have suffered allows us to enjoy our own lives and happiness that much more. So God is not a sadist. He has allowed others die painfully so that you realize how lucky you really are. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/63 "2013-01-11T15:47:22Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > If we could live forever, we would not value life as much. And? We’d be alive to value it. I don’t want to be suffocated just so I’ll value air more either. > [@pchaos](#): > > Look at good and evil in the same many. Look at pain and pleasure the same way. If we did not experience our own pain or the pain of others, then we would not know pleasure and we would not know pain. The very fact others have suffered allows us to enjoy our own lives and happiness that much more. > > So God is not a sadist. He has allowed others die painfully so that you realize how lucky you really are. Nonsense. Pain isn’t necessary to know pleasure, and people watching their friends and family die in agony aren’t happier and don’t feel lucky. Nor is torturing people to death to make others happier justified even if it worked for anyone other than sadists. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/64 "2013-01-11T15:47:24Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > So God is not a sadist. He has allowed others die painfully so that you realize how lucky you really are. And you just naturally assume that you are one of the stars, and not one of the no-name redshirts? How would you feel if you found aout that you were going to suffer horribly and die even more horribly not for your benefit or to teach you anything, but to benefit and teach someone you don’t even know? This is one of the most arrogant religionist views I have ever encountered: “Little Suzy was raped and beatened to death so that _I_ could learn a valuable lesson.” ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/65 "2013-01-11T15:48:06Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > If we could live forever, we would not value life as much. Today would be just another day along with many other days that we expect to live. > > But when you no longer take life for granted, that’s when you really live. So, you’re not really looking forward to heaven, are you? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/66 "2013-01-11T15:55:38Z")
Look I don’t know about you, but you come across as a spoiled brat. A rich spoiled brat. I know where your coming from, I was a poor spoiled brat. But I grew out of it. You think that you are the only person in the world that has experienced pain. And now you are depressed and you blame God. How about blaming yourself because you are a spoiled brat. Both of my parents died within two months because of cancer. I was depressed and drunk for 3 months after that. I knew depression and I questioned God. I found out that depression isn’t when you wish you were dead. Real deep and dark depression comes when you don’t care whether you live or die. I finally realized, that God was posing me a question, do you value life more? Do you have the guts to snap out of it. Not only snap out of it, do you have the courage to thrive in spite of the pain your parents suffered. In spite of the pain you suffered. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/67 "2013-01-11T15:59:24Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Look I don’t know about you, but you come across as a spoiled brat. A rich spoiled brat. > > I know where your coming from, I was a poor spoiled brat. But I grew out of it. I assume this is directed at **Czarcasm** but boy is this ever a classical case of projection. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/68 "2013-01-11T16:01:56Z")
You are just giving me intellectual B.S. Cut off your right arm and then let’s discuss ethics and values and God. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/69 "2013-01-11T16:03:38Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Cut off your right arm and then let’s discuss ethics and values and God. Are you telling us you did? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/70 "2013-01-11T16:06:23Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Both of my parents died within two months because of cancer. I was depressed and drunk for 3 months after that. I knew depression and I questioned God. I found out that depression isn’t when you wish you were dead. Real deep and dark depression comes when you don’t care whether you live or die. > > I finally realized, that God was posing me a question, do you value life more? Do you have the guts to snap out of it. Not only snap out of it, do you have the courage to thrive in spite of the pain your parents suffered. In spite of the pain you suffered. And that’s your idea of a god that isn’t a sadist? “I tortured your parents to death to teach you a lesson?” At best you are describing a god that’s an utter psychopath. Which is hardly an improvement on it being a sadist. > [@pchaos](#): > > You are just giving me intellectual B.S. > > Cut off your right arm and then let’s discuss ethics and values and God. :dubious: That makes no sense at all. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/71 "2013-01-11T16:50:50Z")
Here’s what I’m trying to say. When you are trying to solve metaphysical problems, you can’t just think about it. It isn’t just a matter of logic and facts. So you need to actually experience life fully before you can deal with these issues. Guess what, you can’t just say what if I cut off my right arm, it would be painful. In order to fully experience it you need to actually cut-off your right arm. Look, when you look at facts, you need to go beyond the facts you see in books. You need to experience the pain of other people. You need to experience your own emotional and physical pain. Only then can you get a better feel for your own values. When you say why doesn’t God make the pain go away. What you are really saying is “if I was God, this is what I would do.” But what I’m saying is you need to go beyond these “what ifs.” You need to realize that you are not God. Okay, now what do you do. Do you drown in your empathy and depression. Or do you actually go out and try to help some people like Mother Teresa. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/72 "2013-01-11T17:01:27Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > You are just giving me intellectual B.S. > > Cut off your right arm and then let’s discuss ethics and values and God. How _dare_ you accuse me of being a rich snob! I come from a piss-poor family, and I live from paycheck to paycheck, and it certainly isn’t enough. I lived on the streets for years and watched friends die because they couldn’t get help during rough Seattle winters. In the last few years I had to have my heart restarted, and I had an aneurysm at the base of my skull that made me have to relearn how to walk and talk. I think I’ve had the equivalent of my right arm cut off, don’t you think? If you care to respond to this, I suggest you start with a sincere apology for making such a vast misjudgement with little to no evidence. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/73 "2013-01-11T18:20:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How _dare_ you accuse me of being a rich snob! I come from a piss-poor family, and I live from paycheck to paycheck, and it certainly isn’t enough. I lived on the streets for years and watched friends die because they couldn’t get help during rough Seattle winters. In the last few years I had to have my heart restarted, and I had an aneurysm at the base of my skull that made me have to relearn how to walk and talk. I think I’ve had the equivalent of my right arm cut off, don’t you think? If you care to respond to this, I suggest you start with a sincere apology for making such a vast misjudgement with little to no evidence. So after you had your aneurysm did you blame God. Then after you blamed God what did you do? So then did you go on a message board and bitch and moan about how God is unfair all day. I hope not. At some point we all have to answer God’s questions and decide if we are simply going to bitch and moan or we are going to grow up and try and improve the world. Ultimately, it’s not God’s fault for all this. God gave you free will and all you do is bitch and moan. Or do you have the guts to say, this is the injustice and this is what I’m going to do to correct the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/74 "2013-01-11T18:37:14Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > So after you had your aneurysm did you blame God. Then after you blamed God what did you do? So then did you go on a message board and bitch and moan about how God is unfair all day. I hope not. > > At some point we all have to answer God’s questions and decide if we are simply going to bitch and moan or we are going to grow up and try and improve the world. Ultimately, it’s not God’s fault for all this. God gave you free will and all you do is bitch and moan. Or do you have the guts to say, this is the injustice and this is what I’m going to do to correct the situation. [My response.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=678621) Good day. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/75 "2013-01-11T18:43:04Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > At some point we all have to answer God’s questions and decide if we are simply going to bitch and moan or we are going to grow up and try and improve the world. Ultimately, it’s not God’s fault for all this. God gave you free will and all you do is bitch and moan. Or do you have the guts to say, this is the injustice and this is what I’m going to do to correct the situation. I’ve had a great life, and continue to have a great life (largely through luck, with a smattering of smart decisions thrown in). I don’t believe God exists. If he does, and he has the power to prevent little children from being tortured (but chooses not to), then I believe he’s a terrible, terrible being, unworthy of anyone’s respect, much less worship. I think it’s far more likely such a god does not exist, though. I think you are terribly confused and very, very wrong. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/76 "2013-01-11T19:07:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think it’s far more likely such a god does not exist, though. I agree and I offered people other alternatives, but they don’t see the explanations as plausible. So maybe God the Sadist doesn’t exist. How do you know whether Lucifer doesn’t cause all the pain? Suppose God doesn’t fully control Lucifer and merely tries to correct the situation. We need to stop playing God and say God should do this or do that. Instead, we should ask what is our role and what should each of us do. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/77 "2013-01-11T19:08:46Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > How do you know whether Lucifer doesn’t cause all the pain? Suppose God doesn’t fully control Lucifer and merely tries to correct the situation. Then this God isn’t omnipotent. An omnipotent god can control everything. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/78 "2013-01-11T19:20:36Z")
Well, man’s ability to make up bullshit answers for things they don’t understand works in mysterious ways. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/79 "2013-01-11T19:48:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Who cares what kind of boobies they are? Boobies are proof that God ain’t all bad. Since god made us like boobies, a kind god would put those that like them on the bodies of those that have them. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080/80 "2013-01-11T19:51:37Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Since god made us like boobies, a kind god would put those that like them on the bodies of those that have them. And on some, he has! (Obviously, lesbians are God’s chosen people…) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-must-be-a-sadist/645080.md?page=5)