# God or Satan: Who's winning? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2006, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941 "2006-05-01T13:15:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/21 "2006-05-01T17:46:00Z")
Okay, who is winning? I will have to say evil is winning. It still exists, therefore good has not the power to smite it away. For good to actually win would be a paradox. Say that good sucessfully smoted evil. When evil is out of the proverbial picture, then what is good? Good can never win. So if good can never win, evil must. Is smote even a word? If it isn’t, it sure needs to be. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/22 "2006-05-01T17:46:05Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > What are you talking about? If what’s in the Bible is even close to being true, Satan has already won. War, cancer, earthquakes, Britney Spears. You gotta be kidding me. You’ve obviously haven’t read the bible----or at least didn’t finish it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/23 "2006-05-01T18:16:01Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > If Evil exists because good lets it, then “good” is actually evil for doing so. Therefore, if you’re right evil has _already won_, because evil is all there is. I suppose, if you consider the basis for victory to be “Made it another day!.” Consider that Good and Evil are not seperate entities, but parts of a whole, each depending on the other. Evil effects change, and left to its own devices all would deteriorate into chaos. Good unites all, but allows evil to cause change. Good is the gravity that keeps the nuclear reactions of the stars in check. Good is the human compassion that cleans up after wars and heals the wounded. Evil allows virtue to shine. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/24 "2006-05-01T18:25:30Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > I suppose, if you consider the basis for victory to be “Made it another day!.” Consider that Good and Evil are not seperate entities, but parts of a whole, each depending on the other. Evil effects change, and left to its own devices all would deteriorate into chaos. Good unites all, but allows evil to cause change. Good is the gravity that keeps the nuclear reactions of the stars in check. Good is the human compassion that cleans up after wars and heals the wounded. Evil allows virtue to shine. That’s a rather . . . odd definition of good and evil. It sounds closer to Order and Chaos, which isn’t the same thing. In my terms, good is what makes things better for people, on purpose; evil is what makes things worse on purpose. I see no reason to believe evil is necessary. As far as the argument that “we wouldn’t know what good is without evil to contrast it”; even if true, my answer is “so what ?” ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/25 "2006-05-01T18:44:57Z")
If it’s a matter of intent, then I’d be inclined to believe that good & evil do not in fact exist at all as seperate entities except as a matter of individual perception. Neme me any evil deed–an intentional act that worsens the condition of a person, and I’ll show you it’s counterpart reaping rewards in kind. I have trouble thinking of any evil being perpetrated without at least someone else’s good being the intended outcome. At that point good/evil simply depends on which end of the beating stick you’re on. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/26 "2006-05-01T18:46:54Z")
…and yes, I do realize I’m straying from my original post. Actually, I’m not. It only _appears_ that way. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/27 "2006-05-01T18:51:51Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > If it’s a matter of intent, then I’d be inclined to believe that good & evil do not in fact exist at all as seperate entities except as a matter of individual perception. Neme me any evil deed–an intentional act that worsens the condition of a person, and I’ll show you it’s counterpart reaping rewards in kind. I have trouble thinking of any evil being perpetrated without at least someone else’s good being the intended outcome. At that point good/evil simply depends on which end of the beating stick you’re on. Explain how the actions of the _six fingered man_ could be interpreted as _good_. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/28 "2006-05-01T18:53:04Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > What are you talking about? If what’s in the Bible is even close to being true, Satan has already won. War, cancer, earthquakes, Britney Spears. You gotta be kidding me. Is that what you think? You might want to jump ahead to the ending, then. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/29 "2006-05-01T19:17:22Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Is that what you think? You might want to jump ahead to the ending, then. A. It hasn’t happened yet. B. Even if it will come true, an entity that painfully kills all not on its team wears a black hat in my book. But I think one could make a good case that Satan has won if the Bible is true - or rather, that Satan is the good guy and God is the bad guy. What has Satan done in the Bible that is evil? I can think of two things - causing evil for Job, but that is by God’s command, and making Judas betray Christ, but that was necessary for salvation. Tempting Christ? Maybe. Now, what has God done that the average 21st century person would consider evil? Kill millions in the flood. Command the Israelites to slaughter the various tribes. Killing of the first born. We won’t even go into natural evil. So, what about hell? Let’s say Satan is in command. Why would he torture those who have followe him? Makes no sense - Shaw’s hell is far more likely. If God designed hell, then Satan is innocent, and God is responsible for the torture. And if God is evil, and has one, it makes sense he puts his enemies in the dungeon, just like evil overlords from time immemorial. Remember, George Bush, Darth Vader and God all say either you’re with me or against me. Sorry for straying into GD territory, but even my snarky comments have logical backing. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/30 "2006-05-01T19:28:52Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > If it’s a matter of intent, then I’d be inclined to believe that good & evil do not in fact exist at all as seperate entities except as a matter of individual perception. Neme me any evil deed–an intentional act that worsens the condition of a person, and I’ll show you it’s counterpart reaping rewards in kind. Child molestation ? Peddling tobacco ? > [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > I have trouble thinking of any evil being perpetrated without at least someone else’s good being the intended outcome. Ever hear of malice ? > [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > At that point good/evil simply depends on which end of the beating stick you’re on. Ahem. I said “better for people”, plural; people _in general_. Not “Better for me, and to hell with the rest of you !” ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/31 "2006-05-01T19:52:37Z")
Ah…the needs of the many vs. the needs of the few and all that? Very Logical. Well, I still say it’s a tie and always will be. Evil begets good & vice versa. So there! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_chao_goes_mu/32/3191_2.png) [@The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Chao_Goes_Mu)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/32 "2006-05-01T20:24:08Z")
Is it just me or is this treading dangerously close to _Great Debates_? Right now this is all making about as much sense as arguing the outcome of a battle between _Casper the Friendly Ghost_ and _Marvin Martian._ I’m just saying. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/33 "2006-05-01T21:23:12Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Sorry for straying into GD territory, but even my snarky comments have logical backing. 🙂 They’re not logical, and apparently not from any thorough working knowledge of the bible. (without regard to doctrine or dogma, or the absence thereof) ---
**Author:** ![Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gut)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/34 "2006-05-01T21:58:28Z")
> [@Winston Smith](#): > > but if all you’ve got is a _gut feeling_, If that’s all you’ve got then Evil is winning but it sure feels good! Feel all ya want ! Woohoo! Go Evil Go ! ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/35 "2006-05-01T22:04:56Z")
Since neither God nor Satan exists, I’ll have to say that the question is meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Mayo\_Speaks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mayo\_Speaks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mayo_Speaks)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/36 "2006-05-01T22:10:56Z")
> [@Winston Smith](#): > > Or, if you prefer: Good or Evil? I’d have to say I think it’s close, but I’m going to give the edge to _Evil_. > > What do you think, fellow **Dopers**? Feel free to cite the specifics upon which you base your opinion, but if all you’ve got is a _gut feeling_, don’t let that stop you from responding, I mean, this is a thread asking for _opinions_, and a quick Google search doesn’t reveal the score (a handy Good: 0 Evil: 0; top of the third, one on, one out would be handy). A serious answer from a devout Christian: It doesn’t matter. Good will win in the end (a la Revelation), so it doesn’t matter who’s winning now. It’s rather like watching a sports broadcast on tape when you already know the outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/37 "2006-05-01T23:01:57Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > Evil begets good & vice versa. I just don’t buy that. > [@Mayo Speaks!](#): > > A serious answer from a devout Christian: It doesn’t matter. Good will win in the end (a la Revelation), so it doesn’t matter who’s winning now. It’s rather like watching a sports broadcast on tape when you already know the outcome. And a serious answer from an atheist/antitheist : That assumes that God exists and is good; I don’t buy either. Even if God exists and is winning, that means that evil is winning IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/38 "2006-05-01T23:08:58Z")
> [@Least Original User Name Ever](#): > > Slight nitpick: Souls are actually made from mud. I thought that was feet? 😉 As to the original question…_shrugs and points at username_ ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/39 "2006-05-01T23:36:15Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Since neither God nor Satan exists, I’ll have to say that the question is meaningless. ? Go kill someone else’s thread, slick. The OP clearly gave an optional interpretation to accomodate athiests/non-believers “…if you prefer, good or evil”. Posting a non-response like that is bad form, sir. ;rolleyes ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941/40 "2006-05-01T23:40:42Z")
> [@Mayo Speaks!](#): > > A serious answer from a devout Christian: It doesn’t matter. Good will win in the end (a la Revelation), so it doesn’t matter who’s winning now. It’s rather like watching a sports broadcast on tape when you already know the outcome. Sounds like you’re saying evil:short-term, good:long-term, then, eh? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-or-satan-whos-winning/354941.md?page=3)