# God, Tax Breaks, And The Deficit **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 4, 2010, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-tax-breaks-and-the-deficit/562927 "2010-12-04T12:01:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-tax-breaks-and-the-deficit/562927/21 "2010-12-07T05:59:39Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > This is true today, for all buildings that do not have a purpose that is directly related to an exempt activity. What’s the definition of related to an exempt activity? I know of a downtown church that has a large parking ramp next door to a convention center. On Sundays, parishioners park in the ramp to attend services. The rest of the week, the church charges people to park there. How about a school, which charges tuition, that is run by a church. Rectories and church owned houses? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-tax-breaks-and-the-deficit/562927/22 "2010-12-07T13:36:23Z")
> [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](#): > > What’s the definition of related to an exempt activity? Pretty much anything that’s closely related to that organization’s stated mission as defined by their by-laws which were filed with the IRS. > [@](#): > > I know of a downtown church that has a large parking ramp next door to a convention center. On Sundays, parishioners park in the ramp to attend services. The rest of the week, the church charges people to park there. That income would be taxable, since a for-profit parking lot business would hardly qualify as serving their mission. HOWEVER, you could hand out receipts to everyone stating their parking fee was actually a donation to the church, and they could get away with it without much issue. The IRS is pretty flexible on things like that. > [@](#): > > How about a school, which charges tuition, that is run by a church. Education is quite often associated with religious organizations, and would fall under their mission statement. Education itself is a specific category under the relevant tax code. > [@](#): > > Rectories and church owned houses? Again, you can make a very reasonable case that a rectory is a necessary component of the religious organization. Church-owned houses could go either way, depending on their use. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-tax-breaks-and-the-deficit/562927/23 "2010-12-07T13:54:42Z")
It would get messy, unless you also taxed other non-profit/charitable institutions. For instance, our church runs a subsidized day care. Do you tax us on that? How about the food shelf? And we already pay for some services - we got hit with a whacking big assessment when they upgraded the storm sewers on the road outside our church. Unless you taxed all non-profits, I suspect you would run into Constitutional issues pretty shortly, what with that “separation of church and state” that was put in place to protect churches from interference by money-hungry governments. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![GiantRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@GiantRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GiantRat)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-tax-breaks-and-the-deficit/562927/24 "2010-12-07T16:02:58Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > It’s not a quick question. It’s an impossible question. Not so fast… priests and such often receive salaries… ---
**Author:** ![GiantRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@GiantRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GiantRat)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-tax-breaks-and-the-deficit/562927/25 "2010-12-07T16:13:24Z")
Perhaps off-topic, but I can’t help but wonder if (at least in the case of the Catholic Church) they might attempt to declare the church and its lot consular grounds to side-step taxation. “Hey, it’s an embassy of the Vatican.” Not a factual post, but one that could be relevant in the hypothetical world in which we start taxing churches. Also acknowledged that I’m a known moron in the field of taxation. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-tax-breaks-and-the-deficit/562927/26 "2010-12-07T16:18:02Z")
> [@GiantRat](#): > > Not so fast… priests and such often receive salaries… So? There are millions of employees of non-profit organizations that receive salaries as well. They all pay taxes. > [@GiantRat](#): > > Perhaps off-topic, but I can’t help but wonder if (at least in the case of the Catholic Church) they might attempt to declare the church and its lot consular grounds to side-step taxation. > > “Hey, it’s an embassy of the Vatican.” It wouldn’t fly. While they can claim anything they want, they’d have to show use of the property for that purpose. Then they’d probably need to get Rome to go along with the idea and bankroll them - because they’d likely lose their tax-exempt status as a foreign body. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-tax-breaks-and-the-deficit/562927/27 "2010-12-07T16:45:46Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > If you’re saying that tax-exempts should pay taxes, of course they should. About a third of buildable city land area here is taken up by exempt property - religious, educational, governmental, etc. That was barely tolerable back before suburbs when the population was growing and dense. > > A tax-exemption for religious property is a governmental subsidy to religion. . Ok, but it’s stupid for government to tax itself on government buildings, and most of that 1/3 is government land. Same with schools. And, many non-profits perform needed services- Red Cross, Homeless shelters etc, which if they didn’t do it, the government would. So, that just leaves churches. So, how much of \*buildable city land area \* is taken up by churches. Now, besides being centers of worship, many also perfrom vital community services. So, we’d have to take that into consideration. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-tax-breaks-and-the-deficit/562927/28 "2010-12-08T00:59:38Z")
> [@GiantRat](#): > > Perhaps off-topic, but I can’t help but wonder if (at least in the case of the Catholic Church) they might attempt to declare the church and its lot consular grounds to side-step taxation. > > “Hey, it’s an embassy of the Vatican.” > > Not a factual post, but one that could be relevant in the hypothetical world in which we start taxing churches. > > Also acknowledged that I’m a known moron in the field of taxation. The State Department decides whether a particular property has diplomatic/consular status, not the owner of the property. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-tax-breaks-and-the-deficit/562927/29 "2010-12-08T01:05:38Z")
> [@GiantRat](#): > > Not so fast… priests and such often receive salaries… And they pay income tax on them. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-tax-breaks-and-the-deficit/562927/30 "2010-12-08T03:38:04Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > That income would be taxable, since a for-profit parking lot business would hardly qualify as serving their mission. HOWEVER, you could hand out receipts to everyone stating their parking fee was actually a donation to the church, and they could get away with it without much issue. The IRS is pretty flexible on things like that. Not true a charitable gift is deductible only to the extent it exceeds anything received in return and the IRS insists you have a statement to that effect to take the deduction. It would be pretty easy to determine the value of the parking you received in retruns." ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-tax-breaks-and-the-deficit/562927/31 "2010-12-08T04:02:17Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Not true a charitable gift is deductible only to the extent it exceeds anything received in return and the IRS insists you have a statement to that effect to take the deduction. It would be pretty easy to determine the value of the parking you received in retruns." In truth, yes. In practicality, no. The IRS is not going to run a sting operation on a church taking donations for letting people park in their lot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-tax-breaks-and-the-deficit/562927.md?page=1)