# God, the winner **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 16, 2002, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-the-winner/124245 "2002-08-16T20:53:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-the-winner/124245/41 "2002-08-27T11:14:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by W. Panic Snopes \* > **Essentially, God has plugged himself into an existing myth in order to understand humans, but as Bertrand Russell pointed out he can’t really understand since he knows that he will ultimately survive death.** Well, according to the bible didn’t he ask why God had forsaken him? Which would imply he _didn’t_ know quite what was going on. In fact, isn’t that supposed to be a large part of the torment he suffers? God: So, you should sacrifice your son to me because, uh, uh, its in the larger good. yes. Me: Would you buy a used car from this man? ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-the-winner/124245/42 "2002-08-27T14:30:35Z")
I think your misunderstanding, **Shade**. That is a reference to a Psalm which eventually ends up singing the praises of this god. Supposedly, in those days, everyone knew their Psalms so well all you had to do was throw out the first line and you referenced the whole thing. An example of this Jesus cat taking advantage of common cultural knowledge. Similar in practice to everytime we reference a whole Simpson episode with one line of dialogue. Here is the Psalm (#22) he references references: > [@](#): > > My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? > Why are you so far from saving me, > so far from the words of my groaning? > O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, > by night, and am not silent. > > Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; > you are the praise of Israel. > In you our fathers put their trust; > they trusted and you delivered them. > They cried to you and were saved; > in you they trusted and were not disappointed. > > But I am a worm and not a man, > scorned by men and despised by the people. > All who see me mock me; > they hurl insults, shaking their heads: > “He trusts in the Lord ; > let the Lord rescue him. > Let him deliver him, > since he delights in him.” > > Yet you brought me out of the womb; > you made me trust in you > even at my mother’s breast. > From birth I was cast upon you; > from my mother’s womb you have been my God. > Do not be far from me, > for trouble is near > and there is no one to help. > > Many bulls surround me; > strong bulls of Bashan encircle me. > Roaring lions tearing their prey > open their mouths wide against me. > I am poured out like water, > and all my bones are out of joint. > My heart has turned to wax; > it has melted away within me. > My strength is dried up like a potsherd, > and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; > you lay me in the dust of death. > Dogs have surrounded me; > a band of evil men has encircled me, > they have pierced my hands and my feet. > I can count all my bones; > people stare and gloat over me. > They divide my garments among them > and cast lots for my clothing. > > But you, O Lord , be not far off; > O my Strength, come quickly to help me. > Deliver my life from the sword, > my precious life from the power of the dogs. > Rescue me from the mouth of the lions; > save me from the horns of the wild oxen. > > I will declare your name to my brothers; > in the congregation I will praise you. > You who fear the Lord , praise him! > All you descendants of Jacob, honor him! > Revere him, all you descendants of Israel! > For he has not despised or disdained > the suffering of the afflicted one; > he has not hidden his face from him > but has listened to his cry for help. > > From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly; > before those who fear you will I fulfill my vows. > The poor will eat and be satisfied; > they who seek the Lord will praise him- > may your hearts live forever! > All the ends of the earth > will remember and turn to the Lord , > and all the families of the nations > will bow down before him, > for dominion belongs to the Lord > and he rules over the nations. > > All the rich of the earth will feast and worship; > all who go down to the dust will kneel before him- > those who cannot keep themselves alive. > Posterity will serve him; > future generations will be told about the Lord. > They will proclaim his righteousness > to a people yet unborn- > for he has done it. In the end, it’s a good thing basically. The sayer of the Psalm never loses faith is the point. This passage implies nothing of whether or not he knew his ultimate fate. Mods, was that too big a cut and paste? Sorry if it was. I figured since it was “The Bible” and all . . . DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-the-winner/124245/43 "2002-08-27T14:44:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by W. Panic Snopes \* > \*\*Another book that addresses this is Anne Rice’s vampire novel MEMNOCK THE DEVIL, in my opinion the best work of a wildly uneven author. Memnock is an angel who pitied humanity because they evolved enough to understand and fear death but were impotent to do anything about it. Memnock becomes more of a daimon, a go-between twixt man and God, and becomes vilified in the process. > In the most memorable part of the book, Memnock takes Lestat to ancient Israel and shows him Jesus, who in this book is God in mortal form. Essentially, God has plugged himself into an existing myth in order to understand humans, but as Bertrand Russell pointed out he can’t really understand since he knows that he will ultimately survive death. > Then there was the special “Satan is really an okay dude” episode of BLOSSOM. \*\* This is one of the reasons the idea popped into my head. I too, have read the wildly uneven Anne Rice and I think Memnock the Devil was her best work. Only in the fact that it brought to mind some serious questions. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-the-winner/124245/44 "2002-08-27T15:04:57Z")
**dalovindj** Wow, I never knew that. I should pay more attention to obscure footnotes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-the-winner/124245.md?page=2)