From age 16 to 58 I was unemployed a total of about 22 days. From 58-60 I have been been employed for 6 months, all temp jobs with the longest stretch of no work being 7 months. I am very technical and have good mangement experience as well, and have 3 degrees.
It most defintely sucks and you have my sympathy.
I do feel it is my age.
I know I’ve asked you this before, and I don’t recall your response. Do you volunteer? That might be a good way of sucking off some of that guilt.
I feel sorry for people who are unemployed right now. Whenever I have lulls at work, I try to keep myself busy with something so that I feel like I’m not taking what I have for granted.
I feel bad for the unemployed, having been one of them for so long.
For 30 years I was never unemployed long enough to collect unemployment, I was always back to work in a week or less. Then came 2007 and I didn’t hold a steady job for 4 years.
You have my sympathies. For advice, all I can say is keep putting one foot in front of the other. Don’t hesitate to ask for help!
Good luck to all of you out there.
As an H/R manager, have you ever been out of work?
Because as someone who’s read this whole thread, your reply seems very condescending. Have you actually read some of these stories? People have been out of work for, in some cases, years. By saying “the worst thing you can do is feel down”, it leads me to believe you have not been out of work for any length of time, if ever. If you’ve ever spent 6-8 hours a day five days a week looking for a job, it’s tough… especially as the person’s time on unemployment continues to increase. It is a stressful and emotional event to go through. You need to understand that many people that actually get in front of you may have been through the wringer emotionally. Cut them some slack. You are the one hiring… if someone has been out of work for a while, believe me, they are dying to get the job. Do them a favor… don’t jerk them around, especially if you have no intention of hiring them and are just doing it because this person is on your interview list for whatever reason.
Sorry if I’m off-base, but you are either very young and have no experience with being unemployed, or you are the reason people loathe dealing with H/R. Your advice using Starbucks as the example is a perfect example of advice that doesn’t work in the real world.
Sure, the hiring manager would love to know what the persons real plans are, but here’s a clue. If the person’s been out of work for 12 months, has an advanced degree, and is in their late 30’s or 40’s, do you actually think pointing out the obvious to the hiring manager is going to help his chances? Please. Of course these people are going to move on when they find a job in their field. But Starbucks offers benefits (I think), so they are coveted jobs for people with families. They don’t need a lecture, They need a job! And you can bet they will work their ass off to keep it because they know what it means in this economy to keep a job with benefits.
Another vote for BeaMyra being more than a little out of touch. Don’t get down? I’ve managed to whittle my monthly bills down to less than $500 a month, and I still can’t manage it without help. I cashed out my teacher retirement fund, which means if I ever do get another teaching job in this state (unlikely), I’ll have the same seniority as fresh faced graduate. Health problems have cost me jobs and prevented me from working full time. I’m lucky as hell to have COBRA insurance and luckier that President Obama’s job bill extended it to 36 months. Otherwise, I’d be up Shit Creek without a you-know-what. In the meantime, the co-pays and uncovered portions of my healthcare loom over my head like a tsunami that likes to play mind games.
Spend 6-8 hours a day looking for a job? There aren’t that many jobs out there! I’ve tried. I sat down at craigslist and applied for everything in the past week I could possibly do - over-qualified, qualified, and could-possibly-look-qualified-for-if-you-squint-just-right. I was done in under two hours. The next day, I spent thirty minutes at it. The day after that, ten minutes. The day after that, zero. Because I’d exhausted all the possibilities, and no new ones were being posted.
I got a part-time job three weeks ago. I won’t get paid until mid-January. Even though the hourly rate is good, it’s only for face-to-face time with clients. The prep time I have to do is at least a 1:1 ratio, 2:1 for more challenging clients. So, now, my so-called hourly rate is 1/3 to 1/2 of what I’m contracted for. Oh, and I pay for mileage.
I had another part-time job lined up. Ready to go but for the background check. It evaporated with a form “thanks so much for applying, but we are not hiring at this time” email from the manager who’d been grinning with enthusiasm to bring me on. Not her fault. My guess is that someone up the corporate ladder dropped a decimal point or the previous week’s sales weren’t what they thought, and the money for hiring more went bye-bye.
If it weren’t for the fact that I live with my parents - which I did in order to help them, not me - I would be in serious, serious trouble. Considering my health problems - severe depression with suicidal ideation - I might just be dead.
So, yeah, unemployment and underemployment suck big, moss-encrusted boulders. All the HR feel-good flablabber in the world does not change that.
Yeah, I hear you, man. I had a posh teaching job teaching biology that I quit to go back to school to do research. I figured that if I had a research-based master’s degree and a publication or two under my belt, I’d even more marketable. Wrong. The department rejected my doctoral application and the teaching job I left doesn’t anticipate a need until Summer. I didn’t even bother going to graduation last week, not because I’m not proud of my achievements but because the present outcome isn’t worth celebrating.
I disagree that I am out of touch. While I agree if you’re are in a very small town you might be limited in jobs, but I live in Chicago. I can 100% guarantee you, if you’re not looking 6-8 hours a day, you’re not trying.
If you read my posts, you’ll see, I agree 100% there are not a lot of full time jobs, but there are a lot of part time jobs out there. These are crummy jobs. Starbucks has jobs, Kmart, Target, fast food. They are crummy jobs, you’re only going to get 8 or 16 hours at minimum wage.
My own company is multinational and I see first hand that in the Chicago division we are over 50% part time. Our turn over is massive, but it works for us. At least for now. I was an H/R manager in the 90s, how people forget. We couldn’t fill jobs. I would have people laugh and walk out on me half way through the interview.
I also understand that if you’re over 40, you’re in trouble.
The point I’m making is you have problems and feeling bad isn’t helping. You have to get out and do something. Anything is better than nothing.
You look at things from the point of the job seeker. That isn’t going to help you. In order to get a job you need to think from the point of a job hirer. Since 2008 the rules have change a lot. You can’t do what you did before then and expect to get hired.
I am not unemployed but I currently work over 70 hours. I’s 2am and I’m still working. Why? Because I’m setting up an office that hopefully will be staffed by mid January. I’m not getting paid anymore, but I do it, because I don’t want to be unemployed. It’s better to work 70+ hours and be tired than unemployed. This is also something I stress to people. If you have a job, I can guarantee your company has a long list of people who want to fill it for less money. So it’s not even enough to do a good job, you have to be on the mark all the time.
I have two employees ful time, fighting over a parking space. It ludicrous. The GM is going to axe them both if they don’t come to an agreement, because no one has time for such petty crap. I’ve tried to impress this on them, but they are both going out of their way to make it an issue.
People who are working don’t realize how hard it is to get a job, since they haven’t looked in awhile. While people out of work are more than willing to undercut anyone to get any job.
Is it bad out there, yes. Do I know it, yes. I’m hiring people part time for 8 or 16 hours, who leave my job to take, not a full tiime job, but a part time job that gives them 24 to 32 hours.
My 17 year old son and his friends all have jobs, part time jobs, that pay minimum and they are all working with people over 40. Those older people can’t like it, but they do it.
And this is why I try to impress on people, you gotta keep looking constantly, you got to take any job. It’s always going to look better if you’re working even a crummy job a few hours a week.
Why? Because right now it’s not going to come down to skills. You’re not going to be one of two or three, you’ll be one out of five or more.
Do you really see that? I will have five or more people, all EXACTLY qualified and willing to work and can do that job. So who do I hire. It will depend on the smaller things. When I see a person willing to work at a part time job for less, that goes in their favor. It moves them up one notch against the other five people. If I see someone who wants to be working and I think I would want to work with, that moves them up a notch.
And if you’re over 40, you have problems. I don’t care about your age, but other people do. And guess what? So what? I just said, people over 40 are discriminated against. They should not be. But that statement isn’t going to get you a job. I told you right here, you’re over 40, people will discriminate against you.
My saying it doesn’t help you. You still have to find a way to get past that. Saying there are no jobs isn’t right. Saying there are only jobs with no benefits and 8 or 16 hours and they pay minimum wage IS correct.
But I still maintain it’s better to take two or three of these jobs and go from complaining about no work to complaining about being underpaid, and overworked.
It isn’t my attention to mock anyone, it’s to make you understand how a person who hires thinks and to make people who are working understand, you need to be thinking right now on how to hold on to your job.
Yes you are.
I live in the Chicago area. I spent four years looking for work. Well, OK, I held about 5 part-time, temporary jobs during that time AND looked for work the rest of the week. I made job hunting my full time job.
Four fucking years
I don’t think you comprehend what that is like. Certainly not on a visceral level.
No, there are NOT a lot of part time jobs out there, not compared to the numbers looking for work.
No, hon, those are NOT “crummy jobs”. Crummy jobs are fixing a problem with a septic tank for minimum wage and hoping to god the contractor who hired you doesn’t stiff you on the money. A crummy job is hauling ruined, moldly crap out of a flooded basement, where you have to supply your own safety equipment, for minimum wage. A crummy job is mowing peoples’ lawns for chump change while clueless idiots ask why are you doing this you aren’t Mexican? A crummy job is the night shift at a gas station that gets held up on a regular basis where a prior night shift person was shot dead six months ago - working for minimum wage.
Starbucks, Kmart, Target, fast food, etc. are the GOOD jobs these days, the ones where you are indoors, aren’t too hazardous to your health, and you don’t go home at night smelling like sewage. That’s why for every opening they have there can be 50 applicants, 40 of them overqualified and with college degrees. The competition for those jobs is immense - but, obviously, you don’t see that. You might see “Home Depot hires 5,000 in the Chicago area” as a headline, but you’re clueless that 20,000 people applied and two months later Home Depot laid off half or three quarters of those people.
How nice. How about you take that sympathy and donate it to a local soup kitchen that’s feeding some of those over-40 folks who can no longer afford to feed themselves?
Tell me, BeaMyra, if someone’s house burned down would you say to them “Cheer up. You have to be happy. You can’t let this get you down”?
If someone’s spouse died would you say “Cheer up. You have to be happy. You can’t let this get you down”?
If someone was in an accident and had a limb chopped off would you say “Cheer up. You have to be happy. You can’t let this get you down”?
Yet, if someone loses a job - a life stressor that is often just as devastating as a death in the family or losing a home according to mental health professional - you do, in fact, say “Cheer up. You have to be happy. You can’t let this get you down”
I’m going to clue you in to the fact that if someone loses a job it is perfectly NORMAL to feel down because they lost their job. What you’re saying is normal isn’t good enough. You’re saying normal is bad. You’re saying you don’t want to hire normal people.
YES, we all know that when you go in for a job interview you need to look your best. You need to be cheerful even if it’s just an act. But that’s NOT what you’re telling people. You’re telling people they have to act that way 24/7, that they’re NEVER allowed to express their true feeling any time at all.
Is that what you intended to say? I hope not. But that’s how you come across. Seriously, I half expected you to start recommending “happy pills” for job seekers, nevermind how they’re going to pay for that when there’s no money coming in.
This is one of the reasons people loathe HR - you don’t say “you need to put on a brave face during an interview” or the like, you say “YOU HAVE TO BE HAPPY ALL THE TIME, EVEN WHEN YOU’RE AT HOME OR ALONE.” You’re asking for the impossible, and you’re clueless why that request makes people So. Damn. ANGRY.
Would it kill you to say “Sure, pick one day a week to not get dressed, call your BFF and moan about your life, etc. but for damn sure bury the negative when you’re actually out job hunting.”?
No shit. I couldn’t even get interviews at all the places you suggested until I wised up and stopped listing my college degree on applications because those employers don’t want people with degrees. How screwed up is it that having a degree works AGAINST a person being hired? I started being selective which jobs I listed my degree on the application and suddenly I started getting more responses. I guess you haven’t told anyone THAT, have you? Were you even aware of something like that?
Well, isn’t it a goddamned pity you aren’t working 35 hours a week and someone else could have the other 35? That’s part of the problem - too many employed people are essentially working two jobs for only the pay for one. You don’t see anything wrong with that? You don’t consider that maybe that’s part of the problem?
We fucking know that you condescending biddy, so why the HELL do you come into a thread opened for the unemployed to commiserate and practically BRAG about how fucking employed you are? Do you ENJOY rubbing salt in peoples’ wounds? Or are you so clueless you are unaware that that is what you are doing?
Yep. I think you’ve demonstrated that…
Huh. Really? Take your “I’m employed 70 hours a week” back to your office. The least you can do is not add to anyone’s pain.
Broomstick, just let it go, girl. You said it best: she’s out of touch. And based on her posting history, she’s not a very empathetic person.
What she didn’t say is that there are plenty of places that are in need of workers, but upper management refuses to cut into the bottom line by hiring more. My office is rapidly sloughing off staff positions through attrition, as people retire. I imagine there’s an HR manager watching the remaining staff gradually lose their minds as we try to take over duties we aren’t qualified for, just waiting for that tipping pointing before we turn the place into Bedlam and they’re forced to hire people.
This is dangerous stuff, as I work in an agency that protects human health. When people already have too much on their plate and their new duties are ones that they feel inadequete to do AND they don’t have a supervisor anymore to help them prioritize, guess what’s gonna happen? Shit, that’s what. Sometimes literally. And when it does happen, the anti-government people will use this as evidence that we are incompetent and deny us more money.
We had a townhall meeting with the governor last week. None of the questions he answered dealt with this 800 lb gorilla in the room.
Nope, I’m not going to “let it go”. Not anymore. And since I AM employed full time these days (yay) I can’t be accused of just being a despondent loser anymore.
Really, her coming into this thread is cruel. Maybe she’s impervious to criticism, but I’m still going to speak out against it. Other people need to hear it.
Broomstick, I have to agree with you.
That’s the first time I remember her as a poster, and I thought she was out of touch. I told her. Her reply convinces me that I’m right.
Over 40 and you are in trouble? What an ignorant statement from an HR person. In fact, that whole reply is ignorant, and I’m glad you saved me the time by answering her line by line.
HR people are a joke. I’ve worked with enough of them to know that they have absolutely no idea how little value their job actually provides their company, and they are deluded into thinking they are busting their ass every day in comparison to the rest of the workforce. Add the ability to check other employees salaries, and they have a chip on their shoulder to go with their poor overall attitude. Being in HR is as close to having a government job in the corporate world. And yet, these people have enormous power. **BeaMyra **has told us twice now that there will probably be more than one person qualified for the job she’s interviewing for. You may be one of five! No shit, BeaMyra. It’s nice to know that your sympathetic, judgmental ass is sitting on the other side of the desk, asking me questions you don’t understand for a position you could not qualify for yourself, and instead of looking for the best candidate, you are looking at their resume to see how old they are, and if they’re working 60-70 hours a week of “crap” jobs. Must be nice to be on top of that little power mountain you sit on. Maybe if one of the 40+ age guys offered to wash your car for you every Saturday?
Many HR folks are, in broad strokes, the same. I know there are some out there that think they are “strategic” partners with their company “clients”, but here’s the truth from someone who has to deal with HR regularly. YOU DON’T. My company has a number of HR folks that aren’t even in management making close to, if not more than, 6 figures. All that is to me is overhead that takes money away from the employees that actually make money for the company. Like a salesperson. Or a programmer. Or anyone actually keeping the company afloat while you work your 8 hour day (on the dot) and go home.
I can do your job. You can’t do mine. If it weren’t for lawsuits, HR wouldn’t exist. When you take some time BeaMyra, think about what you do. Start praying that you never get laid off, because it sounds like you would never hire someone with your skills.
I feel sorry for everyone in Chicago that has had to grovel in front of you. And for what, 15 hours a week? You must love your job.
Personally, I’d rather work for Starbucks than for your company. And if I were hiring in Chicago and saw your company on someone’s resume, I’d just assume it was one of those “shit” jobs you were talking about.
Sorry. Missed the edit window and I just couldn’t let this pass. Folks really need to read this again.
This HR person, who is interviewing you for a job (and has already told us that she discriminates against people over 40), says if she likes you and you are some one she’d like to work with, you are moved up a notch. Gee what a surprise.. an HR person hiring like-minded clones to populate her company with. But as she already told you, qualifications don’t matter! So, stick your master’s degree up your ass… or your doctorate… or even your bachelors. She has to ***like ***you.
:rolleyes: Please.
I LIKE YOU. Can I have a job?
I hate to say this, but, as ignorant as that remark is, it’s the truth.
Back when Former Employer was making things miserable for us “old timers” – those of us with over 10 years with the company, and all of hovering in the 35-50 age range – one of the HR people had the audacity to declare something like, “Well, they’re too old for their jobs and we need younger people in here” more than once, in public, in front of many of us.
Long after I’d been laid off, I’d heard this HR person was one of the first managerial people to be let go. Karma’s a bitch 
I know it’s the truth. See, your HR friend didn’t get laid off for being a useless waste of oxygen, they were laid off for sharing that information to the work force.
There are all sorts of reasons why, but 40 is a magical age. See, in many areas, being 40 permits you to sue against wrongful termination because of age. 39, however, and you are SOL. So, to hire someone over 40, you have to have a pretty good reason (usually upper level management can get hired over 40, but forget about filling a position with someone over 40 if it can be done by someone under 40.)
It’s all about minimizing company liability. Statistically, 40 year olds go to the doctor more than a 30 year old. That will save the company money in the long run in lost work days, insurance payments, and blah blah blah. 40 year olds probably go to the bathroom more than 30 year olds, but I don’t know that for sure. That saves the company money on their water bill (toilet flushes).
I hope your user name ‘stink pot fish’ does not have any reference to a woman’s vagina…as that would be rude and hurtful… Just saying…
sad flower.
Life is worth living regardless of ones circumstance. Wearing your heart on your sleeve is fine. Being abject of disposition is just fine. Revealing your distaste for humanbeings who share the Earth and making fun of their silly names is fine as well. Getting chastised by those in authority is extra fine. Believe me…
All is fine. Even sad flowers will one day turn to face the Sun and smile.
Stink Fish Pot is likely nothing more than a reference to “MAS*H”.
Broomstick did a fantastic job of addressing much of the gobsmackingly self-absorbed drivel you posted earlier, BeaMyra, but I really just have to address this.
Five applicants for one job?
Really?
I mean seriously, do you live in Oz or Barsoom or Neverland or some other fictional place and just call it Chicago?
If it were 5:1, I would walk away with the job every goddamn time. Why? Because I interview like a sex symbol movie star. I research the company or district before I go in, I ask intelligent questions, I give good answers. I’ve been told on multiple occasions by interviewers that I am articulate, funny, and a blast to talk to. Before my last move, when half the people in my life fell off the face of the Earth, my references were impeccable, and my letters of recommendation would have made The Most Interesting Man in The World lift an eyebrow in interest.
Now?
The jobs that are posted out here get a minimum 100+ applicants per position. By the time they winnow out the felons, the crazies, and the Crayola writers, hiring managers may still be looking at 20 or more applicants for interviews. My mom tells me of people with Master’s degrees applying for minimum wage positions with Disneyland. I’d apply myself, but the reason I’m out here is to be available to my dad, especially while Mom’s an hour and a half away at work.
Teaching positions? It’s not even a question of how many applicants there are. Because there are no job postings. None. Not even in Bilingual Education, Special Education, Math, or Science - the fields that have the hardest time finding and keeping teachers. Hell, I’ve spoken with a math teacher who had tenure but was still laid off due to budget cuts. There aren’t even any substitute positions, because the retired teachers who usually take them lost so much money in the stock market crash, they’re now taking all the assignments they can.
When I say I ran out of jobs to apply for, I wasn’t using hyperbole. I went through the entire list of categories for my geographical area in Craigslist. I applied for everything from housekeeping to secretarial work to customer service to child care to retail - balancing that a minimum wage job would actually end up costing me and my parents money against how far away it was, could I use public transportation, the chances of being able to keep my job if I had to suddenly pull off my apron and run home because Dad fell, and whether the emotional stress of the job conditions would destroy the precious reserves of mental health I’ve managed to build up. About the only thing I didn’t put in for were jobs requiring constant physical labor, because I can manage about two hours of that per day before I’m exhausted.
What kills me is when HR people - like yourself - decide to thin the applicants by requiring completely immaterial, irrelevant “tasks”. Personality tests. “IQ” tests. Blatantly obvious ethics tests (“Excuse me for just a moment while I leave you alone in this room filled with important looking documentation. I’m sure you won’t notice the hidden cameras.”). Unnecessary drug screening (because friends don’t let friends type high?). Why not just be honest about it and throw half the applications into the shredder? That, at least, is random chance.
Lay off BeaMyra. She mentioned working 70 hours a week. I’m sure she’s just overstressed from promoting synergy and designing the new “Is This Good For the Company” banners.
Still, your dumbass HR management handbook advice isn’t particularly helpful.
Look, the reason people hate HR types is that your job is basically to build an institutionalized fantasy world of mission statements and performance evaluations and corporate culture. It is basically a beurocratic aparatus that is designed to do several things - exert control over the employees and provide protection against any sort of legal entanglements.
It’s bullshit because it fails to take into account the simple fact that 90% of the people in your office don’t want to be there. Most people SHOULD rather be doing something else besides sitting in a cubicle 8-20 hours a day writing TPS reports. Spending time with their family, hobbies, doing nothing, whatever. But we have bills to pay so we become indentured to our corporate overlords.
Now in a brilliant bit of Orwellian machination, we have subverted the very idea of “workers rights”. Where workers once banded together in unions to lobby for restrictions on how long they had to work and what they would be paid, HR people have created a system where NOT wanting to spend your entire life at work is viewed as some sort of character flaw or lack of work ethic.
Of course I’m not going to hire someone over 40. According to corporate HR logic, anyone with any sort of drive or ambition should be freakin Senior VP of Awesomeness by the time they are 40. Why would I hire someone like that for an “Analyst” position typically filled by someone 2 years out of undergrad?
I heard if **phouka **patted you on the back, you would list it on your resume.