# God
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god/631643
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 16, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god/631643 "2012-08-16T02:56:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 7
**Page:** 7
### Author:  [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2012, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god/631643/121 "2012-08-24T12:13:01Z")
> [@Trinopus](#):
>
> That’s remarkably pretty! One could almost admire God, in that view…
>
> **DrFidelius** ’s idea is similar to one a Russian novelist (I do not know who) came up with: it’s a drama. God is the author of the novel. Jesus is the protagonist of the novel. The Holy Spirit is the sense of identification that the author has for the protagonist. (Yeah, it’s a “Mary Sue” novel. So it goes.)
>
> Without evil, the novel would be dull. Where is Star Wars without Darth Vader? Evil was necessary for the purposes of the plot.
>
> God does horrible things to Jesus, in the same way that George Lucas did horrible things to Luke Skywalker. And God does horrible things to us the same way George Lucas wiped out Alderaan. It really sucks if you happen to be a little kid on Alderaan just playing with your first bicycle. But it makes the story better.
>
> This is why the agony of the crucifixion was necessary. Sure, God could have waved an arm and said, “Sins are all now forgiven.” George Lucas could have said, “Obi Wan Kenobi uses The Force to turn Darth Vader back to the bright side.” In both cases, the story is over, a lot of fuss is avoided…but it isn’t interesting any more.
>
> The worst part of this idea is that it eliminates free will, and reduces us, not merely to minor characters, but to stage properties. It takes us out of the drama entirely. Pharaoh doesn’t refuse to let Moses go; God reaches out, hardens Pharaoh’s heart, puts the words in his mouth, and runs the show like a marionette production.
>
> Most of us play with toys…but we don’t make them conscious and self-aware when we pretend that they fight, or get hurt, or die.
>
> (Or…does the mere act of playing with a toy cause it to have self-awareness? Just ask Buzz Lightyear…)
Free will is not saying; you can do which you choose to do, I disagree, but if you do as You wish I will kill you!My way or the highway is not free will. Free will would mean no punishment if you choose your way.
If God does horrible things, he is not all loving. A good parent would not allow a child to harm it self or others. If the idea of heaven is: there is no evil there, then heaven must be dull, and no one would want to go there either!If a person selects evil then they have a flaw that was put their by the same creator god that created Satan. Since he would have known that Satan would be evil he could have prevented it to begin with.
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### Author:  [@BillJ777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BillJ777)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god/631643/122 "2012-08-25T01:45:38Z")
> [@Demilade](#):
>
> i am a believer but i have two questions
>
> Firstly,
> Before Jesus christ came to the world where did people like Abraham, Moses, and Elisha go because technically they were not born again.
>
> Secondly,
> When a person hears God, usually one is told to check if it corrolates with the bible so as to make sure it is not one’s evil mind that is trying to manipulate the person but in Genesis, Abraham is told by God to kill his son, Issac as a test of faith but it also say in the bible thou shall not kill. Was it right for Abraham to have obeyed God without a second thought?
Jesus Christ died for all people…past, present, and future. The bible shows in Mathew 17:1-4 that they are in heaven.
1 Six days later1 Jesus took with him Peter, James, and John the brother of James,2 and led them privately up a high mountain. Mark 9:2; Luke 9:28; 2Pet 1:17; 2 And he was transfigured before them.1 His2 face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light. 3 Then Moses1 and Elijah2 also appeared before them, talking with him.
All people that have died in Christ go immediately to heaven and all people that have not go immediately to hell to await the second coming of Jesus Christ for the final judgement and receive eternal bodies.
Abraham had heard God before and he know it was God speaking to him and he also knew that God was the one who made the laws for the protection of His people. If God tells you to do something, you do it because His ways and thoughts are higher than our ways and thoughts as the heavens are from the Earth.
I have a question of you…are you trying to find fault in the Word of God? There is none…if you will read the Bible and pray for wisdom, you will find that the Holy Spirit will give you the answers you need.
🙂
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### Author:  [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2012, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god/631643/123 "2012-08-25T12:06:53Z")
Welcome, BillJ.
Just so you know, the “Who are you to question GOD?” smackdown administered to Job was one of the first things that caused me to question organized religion. I always felt that God could have given Job a better answer, even if it was to admit that He had all Job’s family killed to amuse Satan.
Reading the Bible and praying for wisdom often leads one to dismiss bibliolatry as a legitimate approach to the Almighty.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2012, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god/631643/124 "2012-08-25T12:11:59Z")
> [@BillJ777](#):
>
> …if you will read the Bible and pray for wisdom, you will find that the Holy Spirit will give you the answers you need.
Why is the bible a better source of wisdom than any other book?
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2012, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god/631643/125 "2012-08-25T12:20:09Z")
> [@Learjeff](#):
>
> Your post reminds me of an very interesting book, “The Life of Pi”. Ideal for those who like the “better story” theory.
Eh; I’ve heard that it’s irrational and just seems to go on forever, though.
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### Author:  [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2012, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god/631643/126 "2012-08-25T12:22:05Z")
> [@BillJ777](#):
>
> Jesus Christ died for all people…past, present, and future. The bible shows in Mathew 17:1-4 that they are in heaven.
>
> 1 Six days later1 Jesus took with him Peter, James, and John the brother of James,2 and led them privately up a high mountain. Mark 9:2; Luke 9:28; 2Pet 1:17; 2 And he was transfigured before them.1 His2 face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light. 3 Then Moses1 and Elijah2 also appeared before them, talking with him.
>
> All people that have died in Christ go immediately to heaven and all people that have not go immediately to hell to await the second coming of Jesus Christ for the final judgement and receive eternal bodies.
>
> Abraham had heard God before and he know it was God speaking to him and he also knew that God was the one who made the laws for the protection of His people. If God tells you to do something, you do it because His ways and thoughts are higher than our ways and thoughts as the heavens are from the Earth.
>
> I have a question of you…are you trying to find fault in the Word of God? There is none…if you will read the Bible and pray for wisdom, you will find that the Holy Spirit will give you the answers you need.
>
> 🙂
Matthew chapter 15 verse 24 Jesus is quoted as telling a woman he only came for the lost sheep of Israel. So he didn’t intend to save all people, if this is correct.
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### Author:  [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2012, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god/631643/127 "2012-08-25T12:24:34Z")
> [@BillJ777](#):
>
> Jesus Christ died for all people…past, present, and future. The bible shows in Mathew 17:1-4 that they are in heaven.
>
> 1 Six days later1 Jesus took with him Peter, James, and John the brother of James,2 and led them privately up a high mountain. Mark 9:2; Luke 9:28; 2Pet 1:17; 2 And he was transfigured before them.1 His2 face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light. 3 Then Moses1 and Elijah2 also appeared before them, talking with him.
>
> All people that have died in Christ go immediately to heaven and all people that have not go immediately to hell to await the second coming of Jesus Christ for the final judgement and receive eternal bodies.
>
> Abraham had heard God before and he know it was God speaking to him and he also knew that God was the one who made the laws for the protection of His people. If God tells you to do something, you do it because His ways and thoughts are higher than our ways and thoughts as the heavens are from the Earth.
>
> I have a question of you…are you trying to find fault in the Word of God? There is none…if you will read the Bible and pray for wisdom, you will find that the Holy Spirit will give you the answers you need.
>
> 🙂
Matthew chapter 15 verse 24 Jesus is quoted as telling a woman he only came for the lost sheep of Israel. So he didn’t intend to save all people, if this is correct.
Also it is a proven fact that it was humans who decided what was God’s word, and what was not, so you, in fact, are believing in what some human decided what was of God.
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