# Goddamn Bill, you're not even PRETENDING the pardons weren't about politics! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 31, 2002, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126 "2002-03-31T23:38:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2002, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/1 "2002-03-31T23:38:06Z")
[http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/03/31/clinton.pardons.ap/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/03/31/clinton.pardons.ap/index.html) > [@](#): > > Former President Clinton says he regrets the last-minute pardon he gave to fugitive financier Marc Rich because it has tarnished his reputation. > > Asked in an interview with Newsweek magazine if he would do it again, Clinton said, “probably not, just for the politics.” Well Christ Bill, aren’t you even going to play fucking lip service to the idea that a person is supposed to be pardoned BECAUSE THE PERSON WAS WRONGFULLY CONVICTED? No, I wasn’t living in some kind of fantasy land where I thought that was actually true, but fuck, is the idea of pardons not being pure politics so absurd that no one even pretends anymore? Even if your pathetic claims that Rich suffered “prosecutorial abuse” are true, you are saying “Fuck him, if I were to do it again I’d let him rot so I don’t look bad.” Fucking asslicking shithumping politician fuck. (And no, I don’t particularly think W is any better, as if that might make a difference, but this quote from Clinton really pissed me off) ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/2 "2002-04-01T00:25:14Z")
Well, at least now he’s being honest. Doesn’t that win any brownie points? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/3 "2002-04-01T00:45:40Z")
Eh, he’s probably lying and just saying that to get the news to pay attention to him again. Just ignore him and he’ll go away. He’s not president anymore and he never will be again, it doesn’t do a heck of a lot of good to stew over Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/4 "2002-04-01T01:25:09Z")
Here it is in black and white. You may not agree with him doing it, but the constitution gives him the right. > [@](#): > > The President’s pardon power is established under the United States Constitution, Article II, Section 2: > > The President … shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment. [http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/pardons1.htm](http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/pardons1.htm) For any reason and any crime except for impeachment. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/5 "2002-04-01T01:31:56Z")
**Revtim** , I don’t think you’re interpreting the quote the way I do (which, based on reading the article and the other quotes therein is what I think Clinton intended). I think what he was saying that he wouldn’t do it again because of the political shitstorm that resulted. He is still denying wrongdoing, but feels that he was “mugged one more time on the way out the door.” > [@](#): > > “People are free to say that they disagreed with this or that part of the decisions I made, but there wasn’t a shred of evidence that it had been done for any improper motive,” Clinton said. “In fact, there is a lot of evidence to the contrary. I thought there was a little bit of a double standard in the way I was treated, to put it mildly. And I still do.” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/6 "2002-04-01T01:32:24Z")
Oh please. Like it would be the first time. Good god, he’s damned if he admits it, damned if he doesn’t. I think most of us would be happy if we never heard the name Clinton again. That’s ALL you ever hear is Clinton Clinton Clinton. Face it peeps-the guy was president for eight years. He was popular. People liked him. Get over it. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/7 "2002-04-01T01:36:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > Oh please. Like it would be the first time. > > Good god, he’s damned if he admits it, damned if he doesn’t. Or, more like it, “damned because he _did_ it.” (Pardoned someone for political reasons). Because he DID do it. Boo hoo hoo. So he is being criticised for doing this rather dishonorable thing. Cry me a river. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/8 "2002-04-01T01:42:58Z")
My point is, we KNEW he did it for politics. So why complain when he finally admits it? D’uh, we knew it. Politicians are liars and sneaks. Who knew? Hell, who HASN’T made a pardon for politics? Bush Sr and Caspar Weinberger, remember? I think I’m way too young to be this damn cynical… ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/9 "2002-04-01T02:05:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > I think most of us would be happy if we never heard the name Clinton again. But then who would the Republicans blame all of society’s ills on? Why, without William Jefferson Clinton as a whipping boy, the populace might actually notice that George W. Bush is one incompetent fucked-up asshole… ---
**Author:** ![musicguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/10 "2002-04-01T02:12:47Z")
Clinton didn’t do one thing that hasn’t been done by other politicians on both sides of the political fence. The thing that pisses off the republicans though is that they tried so hard to make him look worse than all the others and it didn’t work. After spending millions of taxpayer dollars to investigate all of these alleged things he did, all they really came up with was a blow job. Much to their dismay, many of us didn’t really care. I’d easily take 12 more years of Clinton rather than the current clown. Clinton has been out of office for two fucking years people. Get over it already and focus on the bullshit being generated by the current administration. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/11 "2002-04-01T02:23:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Billdo \* > \*\ ***Revtim** , I don’t think you’re interpreting the quote the way I do (which, based on reading the article and the other quotes therein is what I think Clinton intended). > > I think what he was saying that he wouldn’t do it again because of the political shitstorm that resulted. He is still denying wrongdoing, but feels that he was “mugged one more time on the way out the door.” > > \*\* I think we are reading the quote in exactly the same manner. His decision on whether he should have made the pardon or not is being based solely upon politics, and not whether or not the recipient of the pardon was unjustly convicted. This is what I find disgusting. And before anyone accuses me of being a Clinton demonizer, I should point out that I’m a democrat, and voted for Clinton. Just because I felt the dems platform was better than the 'pubs doesn’t mean I’m going to blindly defend everything disgusting that a dem politician does. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/12 "2002-04-01T02:30:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by musicguy \* > \*\* I’d easily take 12 more years of Clinton rather than the current clown. > \*\* To be honest, I would too, but that doesn’t make Clinton immune to my criticism. Unlike many on this board (not necessarily you musicguy), just because a politician is in the same party I prefer, I don’t defend their every inane and corrupt action. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/13 "2002-04-01T02:35:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*My point is, we KNEW he did it for politics. So why complain when he finally admits it? D’uh, we knew it. Politicians are liars and sneaks. Who knew? > > Hell, who HASN’T made a pardon for politics? Bush Sr and Caspar Weinberger, remember? > \*\* Yes, HW Bush did it too. That was also bad. So now I can’t complain about shitty pardons, ever again? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/14 "2002-04-01T02:38:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reeder \* > \*\*Here it is in black and white. You may not agree with him doing it, but the constitution gives him the right. > > [http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/pardons1.htm](http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/pardons1.htm) > > For any reason and any crime except for impeachment. \*\* The subject of your post “There is nothing wrong with it being political” is mere opinion. My opinion differs. If you had said there is nothing illegal about it, then I’d agree. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/15 "2002-04-01T04:40:49Z")
You guys have completely misconstrued what the article says. He does not say the pardon was based on political considerations. He says that in retrospect, maybe he _should have_ considered the political consequences. > [@](#): > > “It was terrible politics,” he said. “It wasn’t worth the damage to my reputation. But that doesn’t mean the attacks were true.” ---
**Author:** ![musicguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/16 "2002-04-01T04:51:06Z")
**Rev** , The only thing is that I don’t see him saying anywhere that the pardons were about politics. He seems to say that he still believes he did the right thing. Then come the Republicans, salivating at the chance to cause as much damage to this guys reputation as they possibly can, even as he is leaving office. The political damage of that attack has caused him to reconsider whether it was worth it. While I can understand that he should not have any regrets if he thinks what he did was right, I can’t really blame him for feeling that way. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/17 "2002-04-01T17:42:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Why, without William Jefferson Clinton as a whipping boy, Naw, we’ve still got Jimmy Carter, too. Just as you still have Reagan, Nixon and a whole host of partisan boobs. On both sides fo the aisle. Politics is, well, _political_. And that’s my insight for the day. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/18 "2002-04-01T18:09:15Z")
. . . actually, **Beer** , I don’t hear many people bashing on Carter these days. Who’da thunk, back in 1980, that he’d end up a (gasp!) _statesman_? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/19 "2002-04-01T19:02:27Z")
Thank you for your submission to Clinton Hit Job on-line. Review of your CHJ as follows: **Hate:** 6 **Reading Skills/Spin:** Inc **Rationality:** 4 This needs to be resubmitted, for the many errors to numerous for our staff to review. Out-of-context quotes should be strung together for maximum spin; Anger was v. gd, but the insults were poorly executed (Shithumping?); We remain unimpressed with your ‘Bush done it too’ caveat. Please submit a single page paper on the difference between “everybody does it” and “double standard”, and why it doesn’t matter in this case. Yours, Caspar Weinberger ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126/20 "2002-04-02T16:15:41Z")
He denied pardon-for-cash with Marc Rich, and the Government Reform Committee (headed by Dan Burton, R, IN) appears to disagree with that in this CNN article about the Newsweek story. Here’s a tip, whenever you read or hear a political story from CNN, AP, MSNBC, Newsweek, ABCNBCCBS or FOX, please please please recognize the extreme probability there is a spin to it. Left, Right, Topspin, whatever. Try the international view of the same story, like Reuters, [here](http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml;jsessionid=M3SA3OB2IWG5ACRBAEZSFEYKEEATIIWD?type=politicsnews&StoryID=759365). It will be different a lot of times out of ten. This Reuters article explains to their reading public that this same Congressional Committee says while the Rich pardon does not have **evidence** of dirty politics, there are 17 others that smell pretty darned bad, a point missed by CNN (shocker). I have not seen the Newsweek article, so I can comment only on the CNN and Reuters take of it here. **Revtim** , I like your politics. Platforms, with standards. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-bill-youre-not-even-pretending-the-pardons-werent-about-politics/101126.md?page=2)