# Goddamn driver (Bicycle RO) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 10, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932 "2008-07-10T02:50:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/41 "2008-07-11T04:00:19Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] There is a bicycle lane. It’s called the road. As others have already pointed out, bikes have as much right to the road as you do. [/QUOTE] I don’t want to defend the doctor in this scenario, but if I was him I’d just claim that a cat jumped out in front of me and I had to stop. I don’t know about California, but if I rear end a car, I’m the one likely to be blamed for it no matter what the driver of the car in front of me was doing. I should have been following at a safe distance. If I am an experienced biker then I should be following at a distance based upon how long it takes for me to stop my bike compared to that of a car and so I can stop no matter what the other driver is doing. The bikers (irrelevant that they were bikers) were being passed by another vehicle. They must have know that the vehicle would end up in their lane at some point. So, it is their obligation to slow down in case that vehicle had to stop for whatever reason, isn’t it? Also, if they are like any other vehicle why are they riding two abreast? It is obvious that they were not just following the vehicle in front of them too closely, they were also following each other too closely to safely navigate the road. So, I can see why one guy may have rammed into the back of the car, but why did two of them? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/42 "2008-07-11T04:27:16Z")
[QUOTE=Uzi] I don’t want to defend the doctor in this scenario, but if I was him I’d just claim that a cat jumped out in front of me and I had to stop. I don’t know about California, but if I rear end a car, I’m the one likely to be blamed for it no matter what the driver of the car in front of me was doing. I should have been following at a safe distance. If I am an experienced biker then I should be following at a distance based upon how long it takes for me to stop my bike compared to that of a car and so I can stop no matter what the other driver is doing. The bikers (irrelevant that they were bikers) were being passed by another vehicle. They must have know that the vehicle would end up in their lane at some point. So, it is their obligation to slow down in case that vehicle had to stop for whatever reason, isn’t it? Also, if they are like any other vehicle why are they riding two abreast? It is obvious that they were not just following the vehicle in front of them too closely, they were also following each other too closely to safely navigate the road. So, I can see why one guy may have rammed into the back of the car, but why did two of them? [/QUOTE] I’m not positive, but riding two abreast is legal. Also, the driver passed them and stopped short. Doesn’t sound like the bikers had much chance. And you’d lie about trying to save the life of a cat after commiting attempted homicide? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/43 "2008-07-11T04:32:15Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] No actually, some cyclists do pick their battles specifically to piss drivers off. You’ve heard of Critical Mass? The bikers who pick a random Friday night, during the rush hour, and close intersections and block lanes? Having the right to Mandeville Canyon Drive, or any other road, doesn’t mean it’s always ethical for everyone to use it, all the time. Shouldn’t the people who actually live there have some consideration over those who come from miles around to ride their bikes in it? It isn’t a cars-versus-bikes issue to begin with. It’s about people converging on a residential street, where they don’t need to be, and creating a major headache for the locals. [Obligatory link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass) And you wonder why drivers get angry. [/QUOTE] You do realize that bikes are entitled to the road, too, right? Critical Mass may be a bit over the top, I agree, but there is some value- raising awareness of bikers’ rights is important to most bikers. We are the red-headed step-child of the transportation world- sometimes extreme measures are required. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/44 "2008-07-11T04:38:23Z")
[QUOTE=Great Dave] I’m not positive, but riding two abreast is legal. [/QUOTE] It may be legal in that jurisdiction, but it is stupid. You leave yourself little room to maneuver in case of an emergency. > [@](#): > > Also, the driver passed them and stopped short. So? If you have to stop then you stop and avoid what you’re stopping for. It applies to the people behind you, too. > [@](#): > > And you’d lie about trying to save the life of a cat after commiting attempted homicide? “If I was him”, I wouldn’t do it because I wouldn’t cut in front of people and slam on the brakes deliberately for no reason. I think a person who would do such a thing isn’t above making up a lie about having to stop for an emergency and place the blame more squarely upon those following behind him too closely. Now if I passed any vehicle, pulled back in the lane, and then something jumped out at me, I’d most likely hit my brakes. You can believe the cat story at that point or not. I wouldn’t be lying. But if you slammed into the back of me, I’d not have much sympathy for you. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Ryle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8dc957/32.png) [@Mark\_Ryle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Ryle)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/45 "2008-07-11T04:41:14Z")
[QUOTE=threemae] Downtown Philadelphia is literally choked with automobile traffic from 7-9 AM and 4-7 PM. It takes a half hour to go a god-damned block and everyone (people on bikes and cars) would be better off if… [/QUOTE] Time for a bit of bicycling BBQ Pit trivia: According to the other current bicycling thread, [Dear Deeply Misguided Bicycling Bitch](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=473989), all bicyclists in the above traffic situation should maintain their position where? [QUOTE=jacquilynne] Behind whichever car they are behind when traffic comes to a stop, in front of whichever care is behind them when traffic comes to a stop. [/QUOTE] Why? So the drivers do not again have to pass those cyclists when traffic begins to move. The above is Post 60 in the other thread but wasn’t an isolated lunacy, the general idea also being put forward at Post 40 by **Gukumatz**. At what point, if any, may we, as conscientious bicyclists, commence to proceed cautiously in such a situation? On which light-change may we again lift tentative foot to pedal and humbly pass on the right? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/46 "2008-07-11T04:47:03Z")
Didn’t read the links did you? From the LA Times story (Linked in the OP) > [@](#): > > Peterson said he pulled in front of Stoehr after a driver behind them honked. The car passed them, missing their handlebars by less than a foot, Peterson said. > > The driver "yelled out some profanity and ‘Ride single file,’ " said Peterson, who works as a cycling coach. Peterson, riding a $5,500 Specialized racing bike, screamed an expletive at the driver. At that point, the driver veered directly in front of the riders and “slammed on his brakes as hard as he could,” Peterson said. From the [LAist](http://laist.com/2008/07/07/road_rage_motorist_vs_cyclists_on_m.php) quoting one of the victims > [@Christian Stoehr](#): > > “We were riding downhill at approximately 30 mph when a car came up behind us, must have been doing 50 mph, and the driver started honking at us. We moved to the right in single file within seconds and the motorist pulled along Ron and started screaming at him. He then pulled in front of us with 3-5 feet to spare and slammed on his brakes, giving us no time to stop. I swerved and almost made it, clipping the car and flying through the air and landing in the street. Ron had no room to move and he went straight into the back of the car, putting his face through the back window.” His actions after the collision also make a cat ran in front of me defense a bit weak > [@Christian Stoehr](#): > > The driver of the vehicle stopped his car and continued the tirade, identifying himself as a Doctor but never offering medical attention. > > Ron told the motorist to turn off the car and Christian sat on the hood of the car, afraid that the driver would drive off. The motorist continued the tirade, telling Christian to get his bike out of the street. Christian reported that they were afraid that the motorist would leave the scene. > > A third cyclist, Chris Roberts, rode up and stepped in to make sure the motorist didn’t leave. Christian collapsed on the side of the road as the ambulance from the top of the hill pulled up with the first injured cyclist. Paramedics jumped out and administered first aid. And there is this tidbit at the end of the same story > [@](#): > > “This isn’t the first time that there’s been an incident like this.” says Ron. "In fact two cyclists from LAGrange were recently run off the road by a motorist who fits the same description as this one. They reported it but no charges were filed. Same road, same situation. So this may not be the first time, Dr. Dickhead pulled this kind of shit. As far as the rear end accident being the fault of the guy in back, yes usually it is. but if the guy in the front car is cited, it becomes his fault. Being arrested for assault with a deadly weapon pretty much makes it look like the cops don’t think it was the bike rider’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/47 "2008-07-11T05:00:26Z")
[QUOTE=Uzi] I don’t want to defend the doctor in this scenario, but if I was him I’d just claim that a cat jumped out in front of me and I had to stop. [/quote] The asshole responsible for [this](http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/08/2239569.htm) similar incident is currently, IIRC, trying to convince a court that “engine failure” caused his car to halt abruptly in front of a bunch of 50 cyclists. We’ll have to see if that wow’s the jury. I can’t say I’m terribly convinced myself. > [@](#): > > Also, if they are like any other vehicle why are they riding two abreast? It is obvious that they were not just following the vehicle in front of them too closely, they were also following each other too closely to safely navigate the road. So, I can see why one guy may have rammed into the back of the car, but why did two of them? I honestly can’t parse this sentence. How is riding two abreast following each other too closely? It’s not following each other _at all_. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/48 "2008-07-11T05:05:48Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] As far as the rear end accident being the fault of the guy in back, yes usually it is. but if the guy in the front car is cited, it becomes his fault. Being arrested for assault with a deadly weapon pretty much makes it look like the cops don’t think it was the bike rider’s fault. [/QUOTE] I agree, but unless the guy in front puts the car in reverse and deliberately drives down the people behind him, then I’d think some the blame falls upon the people following to slow down and avoid the accident. Because, in any other situation of someone passing someone else, the person in front could have to stop quickly for any number of reasons. I don’t see how this guy deliberately doing something illegal absolves the people in back from driving with due care and attention eg. following to closely. But, I’m not willing to die on this hill for this argument, either. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/49 "2008-07-11T05:25:03Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] Hey shit for brains read what you wrote: (bolding and size mine for the reading comprehension impaired) You brought up the late to work strawman. BTW I missed this part on the first read through ah the classic **N** ot **I** n **M** y **B** ack **Y** ard. Typical rich asshole attitude. How dare those people on bicycles ride on my road. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] No really, fucker. There are places that are more able to handle large numbers of cyclists, and that don’t create local obstacles. I don’t live in MC and, at this point, don’t expect to and don’t want to. But I know how it is to live on a two-lane road, miles up from the nearest place to pass. It’s one thing to share the road, but that doesn’t mean people moving more slowly shouldn’t pull over to let others pass. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/50 "2008-07-11T05:27:18Z")
[QUOTE=Uzi] I agree, but unless the guy in front puts the car in reverse and deliberately drives down the people behind him, then I’d think some the blame falls upon the people following to slow down and avoid the accident. Because, in any other situation of someone passing someone else, the person in front could have to stop quickly for any number of reasons. I don’t see how this guy deliberately doing something illegal absolves the people in back from driving with due care and attention eg. following to closely. But, I’m not willing to die on this hill for this argument, either. [/QUOTE] This makes no fucking sense. If someone passes you, pulls right in front of you, and nails their brakes, it’s your fault (partially) for following to close? WTF are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/51 "2008-07-11T05:34:48Z")
[QUOTE=Aspidistra] I honestly can’t parse this sentence. How is riding two abreast following each other too closely? It’s not following each other _at all_. [/QUOTE] From the article: > [@](#): > > Peterson said he pulled in front of Stoehr after a driver behind them honked. The car passed them, missing their handlebars by less than a foot, Peterson said. They were riding single file as the car passed them. Not only was the first guy in line unable to stop, so was the guy riding behind him. They didn’t even seem to be following each other at a safe distance. Also, this: > [@](#): > > The driver "yelled out some profanity and ‘Ride single file,’ " said Peterson, who works as a cycling coach. Peterson, riding a $5,500 Specialized racing bike, screamed an expletive at the driver. At that point, the driver veered directly in front of the riders and “slammed on his brakes as hard as he could,” Peterson said. The driver yells something at the bikers. When does he do this? As he passes them? As he paces them? Then Peterson yells something back at him. At which point the car veers in front of them. It seem like a long conversation to have while being passed and getting missed by less than a foot when the guy is doing so. And during all this time the bikers didn’t think to slow down in anticipation that they were dealing with an asshole? Hey, if the doctor slammed on his brakes deliberately then I don’t have a problem with him being blamed for the majority of this. But it could also have been alleviated if the bikers were driving defensively. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/52 "2008-07-11T05:46:23Z")
[QUOTE=Gorsnak] This makes no fucking sense. If someone passes you, pulls right in front of you, and nails their brakes, it’s your fault (partially) for following to close? WTF are you talking about? [/QUOTE] Yes, it is your fault for ramming into me, imho. You know I’m passing you. You know how long it takes for your car to stop. If you see me merging (which you know I have to do because I’m in the oncoming lane) in front of you and the distance between us doesn’t allow you to stop safely if I have to stop suddenly, how is it anyone’s fault but your own if you don’t slow down and create enough distance so you can stop safely? It certainly isn’t my fault for passing you. If I’m in the lane in front of you, you have to ensure there is enough distance between us so that you can stop safely. It doesn’t matter how long I’ve been in front of you. Well, unless I dropped from the sky unexpectedly, I guess. Personally, when I pass someone I want to create what I think is the correct distance before I merge. I don’t want them to think I’m cutting them off. But both the passer and passee should know that if I have to get in that lane, I may have to do so quickly for any number of reasons. Or are you one of those types that wouldn’t slow down even if there was unexpected oncoming traffic about to nail the guy who is passing you? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/53 "2008-07-11T08:17:20Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] No actually, some cyclists do pick their battles specifically to piss drivers off. You’ve heard of Critical Mass? [/quote] Yes, i have. And you know what separates Critical Mass from everyday cyclists? Not only do they go out of their way to piss off drivers, but they make clear that this is exactly what they are doing. If some guy is just riding down your road by himself, or with a couple of friends, the chances that it is a Critical Mass protest are pretty much zero. Basically, if you can’t tell the difference between a regular cyclist and a Critical Mass ride, you’re a moron who shouldn’t be behind the wheel of a car. [QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] And you wonder why drivers get angry. [/QUOTE] Why? Because i expressed a lack of sympathy that someone might have to change down a couple of gears and wait for a safe place to pass? That’s how we share the road, idiot. I don’t even own a bike. I just get sick of assholes who seem to believe that anyone not propelled by an internal combustion engine has no right to use the road. > [@Uzi](#): > > Yes, it is your fault for ramming into me, imho. You know I’m passing you. You know how long it takes for your car to stop. If you see me merging (which you know I have to do because I’m in the oncoming lane) in front of you and the distance between us doesn’t allow you to stop safely if I have to stop suddenly, how is it anyone’s fault but your own if you don’t slow down and create enough distance so you can stop safely? It certainly isn’t my fault for passing you. It’s precisely your fault, you dribbling moron. One of the requirements for safe passing is allowing yourself enough space to get around the car in front of you without resorting to diving back in and forcing the other driver to slam on the brakes. If you can’t do that in the space you have for passing, then you don’t pass. End of story. The guy you’re passing shouldn’t have to slam on the brakes just because you don’t know how to drive. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/54 "2008-07-11T11:14:19Z")
[QUOTE=Great Dave] We are the red-headed step-child of the transportation world- sometimes extreme measures are required. [/QUOTE] There is a difference between transportation and recreation. Hundreds of cyclists do not descend on this narrow residential road every weekend because they just happen to need to go from A to B and Mandeville Canyon Road is the best way to get there. They are riding for funsies. They are ALL riding for funsies. Every lost minute, every nervous time you pass them on a turn, every time you have to slow down and wait, it’s because they want to have fun riding on the street you live on. You lose some of your “I have the right to be here” argument when all you’re doing is joyriding. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/55 "2008-07-11T11:45:21Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] It’s precisely your fault, you dribbling moron. One of the requirements for safe passing is allowing yourself enough space to get around the car in front of you without resorting to diving back in and forcing the other driver to slam on the brakes. If you can’t do that in the space you have for passing, then you don’t pass. End of story. The guy you’re passing shouldn’t have to slam on the brakes just because you don’t know how to drive. [/QUOTE] What the hell is your problem? I won’t pass unless I think it is safe. But there are things that happen that are unforeseen. A deer jumps out into the road. An unseen T intersection in which a driver pulls out, etc. Which is exactly what I’ve said. And for those who can read: [Rear End Collisions](http://roadrules.ca/?cat=89) [Wheels.ca](http://www.wheels.ca/Auto%20Know/article/34508) In the vast majority of cases the guy who does the rear-ending is considered at fault. The only exceptions is if I cut in front of you and you can’t anticipate I’d be doing so. When someone is passing you, I’d think it would be self evident that I’ll be coming back into the lane you are traveling in eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/56 "2008-07-11T12:42:02Z")
From your first “cite” > [@](#): > > If the other driver is already breaking Breaking? Breaking? What is the other car suffering a mechanical break down? Jesus Christ on a pogo stick a car has brakes, it braking, not breaking. I refuse to put much stock in a cite that does not know the difference. How about we look at the California Driver’s handbook published by the State of California DMV (who knows the difference between breaking and braking.)On bicycles in general > [@](#): > > Bicyclists on public streets have the same rights and responsibilities as automobile drivers. Respect the right-of-way of bicyclists because they are entitled to share the road with other drivers. > Bicyclists: > > ``` > * must ride in the same direction as other traffic, not against it. > * must ride in a straight line as near to the right curb or edge of the roadway as practical— not on the sidewalk. > * must make left and right turns in the same way that drivers do, using the same turn lanes. > * may legally move left to turn left, to pass a parked or moving vehicle, another bicycle, an animal, or to make a turn, avoid debris, or other hazards. > * may choose to ride near the left curb or edge of a one-way street. > * may use a left turn lane. If the bicyclist is traveling straight ahead, he or she should use a through traffic lane rather than ride next to the curb and block traffic making right turns. > > ``` > > Drivers must: > > ``` > * look carefully for bicyclists before opening doors next to moving traffic or before turning right. > * safely merge toward the curb or into the bike lane. > * not overtake a bicyclist just before making a right turn. Merge first, then turn. > > ``` Note the requirement that the driver must safely merge toward the curb. On passing another vehicle: > [@](#): > > Always signal before passing. Don’t pull out to pass unless you know you have enough space to return. > > Avoid passing other vehicles, including motorcycles and bicycles, on two-lane roads. It is dangerous. Every time you pass, you increase your chances of having an accident. Be patient when passing a bicyclist. Slow down and pass only when it is safe. Do not squeeze the bicyclist off the road. > > **Space To Return** > > Before you return to your driving lane, be sure you aren’t dangerously close to the car you have just passed. One way to do this is to look for the car in your inside rear view mirror. When you can see both headlights in your rear view mirror, you have enough room to return to your driving lane. Don’t count on having enough time to pass several cars at once. Also, don’t count on other drivers making room for you. You will note that the responsibility lies on the overtaking vehicle to make a safe pass. The vehicle being passed does not have any requirement to give way. Bottom line Doctor Dickhead made an illegal pass and assaulted two bike riders with a deadly weapon. He got caught and arrested. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/57 "2008-07-11T13:04:19Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] On passing another vehicle:You will note that the responsibility lies on the overtaking vehicle to make a safe pass. The vehicle being passed does not have any requirement to give way. [/QUOTE] So, what you’re saying is that if a vehicle was passing you, was in front of you, but hadn’t made his merge yet, and a car was approaching in the other lane, you wouldn’t slow down to let him to let him safely enter the lane in front of you? > [@](#): > > Bottom line Doctor Dickhead made an illegal pass and assaulted two bike riders with a deadly weapon. He got caught and arrested. No doubt. It doesn’t change the fact if the bikers had slowed down when dickhead started acting the dick, they probably could have avoided the accident. But then I’m not the one spitting out teeth or with the dislocated shoulder. They were right, he was wrong. That’s all that counts apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/58 "2008-07-11T13:21:54Z")
[QUOTE=Uzi] The driver yells something at the bikers. When does he do this? As he passes them? As he paces them? Then Peterson yells something back at him. At which point the car veers in front of them. It seem like a long conversation to have while being passed and getting missed by less than a foot when the guy is doing so. And during all this time the bikers didn’t think to slow down in anticipation that they were dealing with an asshole? Hey, if the doctor slammed on his brakes deliberately then I don’t have a problem with him being blamed for the majority of this. But it could also have been alleviated if the bikers were driving defensively. [/QUOTE] They were already going 20mph slower than he had been when he zoomed up their butts. I don’t really see where slowing down further would have helped them. Any normal driver would have waited the extra half a second to cut in front of them that he _would_ have been a safe stopping distance away, suddenly-jumping-out-cat or not. Defensive cycling is one thing - assuming every jerk you meet on the road is also a raving psychopath seems ike overkill to me. ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/59 "2008-07-11T13:23:20Z")
As far as I can see, the version of events given here is from the cyclists. Quoting Peterson isn’t exactly an objective account. Has the doctor given a statement? ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/60 "2008-07-11T13:38:51Z")
[QUOTE=muttrox] As far as I can see, the version of events given here is from the cyclists. Quoting Peterson isn’t exactly an objective account. Has the doctor given a statement? [/QUOTE] Given the physical evidence, which seems to corroborate the cyclists’ story, I think that the doctor’s story would have to be extraordinary to counter the allegations that have been made. Note, too, the OP’s link does have reporting from the doctor’s lawyer - if there had been some facile explanation available at that time, I can’t imagine that the lawyer wouldn’t be spreading it to keep his client from being convicted in the court of public opinion before the Grand Jury finishes deliberations. (I expect to hear, at trial, that the doctor’s car had the reverse of that same gas pedal/brake pedal linkage that causes so many cars to drive into buildings. Now it’s making them stop in front of bicyclists, too. And _it’s not the driver’s fault!_.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932.md?page=4)