# Goddamn driver (Bicycle RO) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 10, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932 "2008-07-10T02:50:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/81 "2008-07-13T15:14:51Z")
[QUOTE=Uzi] I’m talking about a vehicle being completely in front of yours in the same lane. Once he is there, **even if he merges a foot in front of you** , then it is up to you to make sure you have appropriate distance to stop. Which means applying brakes as needed. If I am acting aggressive in my pass, I would think it would make even more sense to create as much distance between you and the idiot. I know as I’ve had some guy road rage on me. Normally, I’d just punch the accelerator and leave him furiously pounding his steering wheel, but in the situation and busy road we were on it made far more sense to back off and let him have ‘his’ road. So, I’ll repeat this, I am not saying the doctor shouldn’t be charged for what he did, as he seems to have deliberately attempted to injure the bikers. But, it seems to me that the bikers were playing a little bit of ‘this is my road, too’ and instead of braking they were hurling epitaphs back at the driver instead of rationally assessing their situation eg. Biker = fast pedestrian playing on the road with Cars=2 tons of hurling metal. [/QUOTE] Did you read the CVC that Rick posted? > [@](#): > > Space To Return > > Before you return to your driving lane, be sure you aren’t dangerously close to the car you have just passed. One way to do this is to look for the car in your inside rear view mirror. When you can see both headlights in your rear view mirror, you have enough room to return to your driving lane. Don’t count on having enough time to pass several cars at once. Also, don’t count on other drivers making room for you. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/82 "2008-07-13T16:45:39Z")
He also missed this part in the OP > [@my OP](#): > > A car with ABS can out stop a bike ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/83 "2008-07-13T17:02:12Z")
**Uzi** , I learned to drive and ride a bike in road paranoia central: Eastern Mass. I was always watching the road to see what the idiots and assholes in cars would be doing, and assuming they wouldn’t see me. I’d brake if I thought that there was a reason for me to worry that a car would be trying to pull over, or even if there were something going on ahead of me that I wasn’t sure I understood what was going on. Even with that background, I’m not paranoid enough to brake because some asshole in a car is driving next to me, at speed, with no one else on the road, and yelling because he didn’t like the way I was riding. IOW, I’d anticipate idiocy on the part of other drivers. What this driver did wasn’t simply idiocy - it was maliciousness. And if you’re seriously suggesting that cyclists should anticipate maliciousness from everyone on the road, or even everyone who expresses anger or frustration on the road, I can’t see how you can keep from arguing that “they shouldn’t have been on the road, at all.” Once you start anticipating maliciousness, the only way to be mostly safe from it, is to avoid the situation in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/84 "2008-07-13T19:22:02Z")
[QUOTE=GLWasteful] If you act the ass with another driver, he or she might catch you and do you harm. Cyclists, though, don’t have the wherewithal to chase your cowardly ass down and bring the pain. Damned shame, really. [/QUOTE] Hmm, the well equipped bicyclist of the future.[ul][li]Helmet[/li][li]Gloves[/li][li]Properly fitting riding outfit[/li][li]Lights[/li][li]Reflectors[/li][li]CamelPak or similar hands-free water/fluid delivery system[/li][li]Spedometer(optional GPS)[/li][li]Communication device(cell phone most likely)[/li][li]9mm, .45 or .357. Holstered conspiciously, loaded with rounds capable of penetrating the average automobile.[/ul]I’m guessing the average asshole isn’t going to assault someone clearly carrying a firearm.[/li] This list is presented facetiously, in case you’re humor impaired. I despise CamelPaks. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/85 "2008-07-13T20:41:14Z")
**Mtgman** : Alas, I know of at least a couple of cyclists who now ride strapped. I’m waiting for the ultimate throw down wherein somebody gets seriously hurt or worse yet, killed. Of course, all thanks to our newly minted concealed carry law, one of them keeps his 9mm in one of the rear pockets of his jersey. Life is grand here in the big city. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/86 "2008-07-13T21:47:16Z")
True dat. Not had first hand experience with it as I live in the UK, but seen numerous threads on US cycling websites along the lines of ‘Doing a century next weekend, what gun for the back of the jersey?’ ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/87 "2008-07-13T22:25:03Z")
[QUOTE=Busy Scissors] True dat. Not had first hand experience with it as I live in the UK, but seen numerous threads on US cycling websites along the lines of ‘Doing a century next weekend, what gun for the back of the jersey?’ [/QUOTE] Fuck me! That’s a sign of the times I never want to witness close up! :eek: The roads are dangerous enough, here in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/88 "2008-07-14T04:36:51Z")
[QUOTE=Great Dave] Did you read the CVC that Rick posted? [/QUOTE] Yeah, I know that. I also make sure I drive that way. But the default assumption is that if you rear end someone you are at fault. The ‘default’ assumption. So, when someone is passing me I am not only watching the road in front, I’m anticipating what to do if he suddenly cuts in front of me. [QUOTE=OtakuLoki] Even with that background, I’m not paranoid enough to brake because some asshole in a car is driving next to me, at speed, with no one else on the road, and yelling because he didn’t like the way I was riding. [/QUOTE] I’ve had someone ride my tail, pass me while swearing and giving me the finger, and then cut in front of me and slow down suddenly. Luckily, I was already slowing down and had my foot on the brake when he did so in anticipation of this move. A guy is screaming at you as he passes you and you don’t think he might slam on the brakes when he is front of you? He’s already proven to be an asshole just by his behavior and slamming on his brakes forcing you to stop is what assholes do. **Rick** , I’ve driven 13 ton vehicles in the army, motorcycles, bicycles, and cars. I’ve had numerous defensive driving courses and driving courses in general. I currently drive in the backwoods of Yemen and if you don’t drive ultra-defensively there you will die. People will pass you here through dust clouds, they will drive the wrong way down the road, and the common myth here is that running your lights causes your battery to fail. So, driving at night is something I avoid like the plague. I also do know that bicycles stop in longer distances than cars typically do. Which is why if you are riding a bicycle you should take this into consideration. You have to start braking in anticipation that the asshole passing and yelling at you will continue to be as much of a dickhead in front of you as he was when he was behind and beside you. Why wouldn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/89 "2008-07-14T04:54:27Z")
Both my brothers raced bicycles. I helped them train. Riding the ~26 miles or so that we’d do a few times a week(to a medium size lake, around, and back) in a very bike-unfriendly city(Dallas), I’ve been there. In my older brother’s first defensive driving class he had an instructor who railed on and on about bicyclists and the danger they presented to drivers. He came home and told us about it, man we were incensed. We’d been riding our bikes everywhere since we could walk and most of us had bad experiences with drivers, none of us had ever hit a car, or hit any pedestrians. We didn’t wear helmets(except when racing or training at high speed) but that was normal for the time. I remember nearly being killed by a city bus when I was about eleven. I had to hop the bike sideways up onto a curb where I promptly crashed on the sidewalk as he took out my rear wheel. Didn’t even stop. Now my household rides about once a week as a family, but we load all the bikes up and drive to a trail that’s less than three miles away because there’s no bike lane. Riding in the streets in this city is nuts unless you’re part of a big pack. I’m sure there are people who do it(I do it sometimes, and my neighbor down the street does too) but we are very aware of the risk we’re taking. No way I’m letting the family do that. It was a real eye-opener when I made my first trip to California(San Diego) and saw bike lanes in the city(versus in a park). A trip to Seattle left me speechless as traffic actually stopped just at the base of an on-ramp to a freeway for a bicyclist. In Dallas, that guy would have been road pizza. I got a dirty look when I pulled up into the crosswalk in downtown Seattle at a red light so I could see around the corner to know if was clear to take a right on red. It seems there are some downtown areas where people actually walk. I went to high school in downtown Dallas, even during lunch hour the crosswalks aren’t busy. Anyone reading this and thinking “everyone is curteous and careful around bicyclists here,” well, you’re lucky, and I’m happy for you. Still don’t like camelpaks. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2008, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/90 "2008-07-22T05:29:14Z")
Doctor asshole has been [charged](http://laist.com/2008/07/11/road_rage_motorist_charged_with_4_c.php). 😃 This incident has also sparked a move from better lane marking for bicycle routes, an education campaign (needed for both riders and drivers IMHO) and some new laws. So maybe some good will come of this after all. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/91 "2009-01-19T02:05:35Z")
An update, but not necessarily news. [Doc pleads not guilty, trial date set.](http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_11464454) ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/92 "2009-01-19T02:59:57Z")
Thanks for the update. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/93 "2009-01-19T03:07:09Z")
Slightly more detail [here](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/01/a-brentwood-phy.html). I’m not sure how the “teach them a lesson” defence goes down in LA. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/94 "2009-01-19T03:15:23Z")
> [@LATimes](#): > > Thompson and his attorney are expected to move to dismiss the case next month; a trial has been set for March 6. Good luck with that Sparky. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/95 "2009-01-20T07:13:19Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Don’t doctors take the [Hippocratic Oath](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocratic_oath) in Oklahoma? I thought there was something in there about not doing any harm. Were the bicyclists either foreign-born or ethnically Mexican? Oklahoma has some strong ideas on the right of aliens to enter the country. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932/96 "2009-01-20T07:18:44Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > How would you like it if you lived on a narrow winding road, and the local building material company decided they were going to run their 20-mph cement mixers through it every weekend? You’d be pissed, and rightly so. If they’re doing it all the time, then he should be adapted to it by now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-driver-bicycle-ro/455932.md?page=4)