# Goddamn fucking right she should sue!!!!!!!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 20, 2007, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377 "2007-10-20T05:35:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/81 "2007-10-21T08:44:42Z")
[QUOTE=CarnalK] Just thought I’d point out that your Korean unisex bathroom descriptions aren’t encouraging as far as a goal for North America. They also re-enforce my point that unisex bathrooms throughout the world are almost always implemented as a matter of space or economics, (eta) rather than as a concession to the change in perception of gender identification. [/QUOTE] And I’ll just point out that I said “anecdotal”. “…throughout the world are almost always implemented as a matter of space or economics…” - cite? Cites need not only flow in one direction here people. Are you talking about the primary motivation for unisex bathroom implementation since the dawn of recorded history? Or within the past 50 years? 20 years? 10 years? [UC Davis](http://daviswiki.org/Bathrooms) acknowledges gender-neutral motivation. [Here](http://womensrights.suite101.com/article.cfm/unisex_bathrooms_the_controversy) is an article making the observation that it is difficult to academically determine the origin/motivation of segregated bathrooms. But be warned, the article is by some of those pesky feminists. We are at the beginning of a wave of “change in perception of gender identification”. Research is needed. Ideas are needed. Discourse is needed. I am an individual that is not happy with the status quo. I do not think I am alone. Do we have critical mass? Apparently not yet, but times are a changin’. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/82 "2007-10-21T09:00:24Z")
[quote=] But be warned, the article is by some of those pesky feminists. [/quote] And what is that snide little comment suppose to mean? I have a feeling it has to do with you having me aaall figured out. ETA: I’ll look back, but I’m pretty sure I was commenting about places outside of the States. Not sure why you thought that UC Davis link was useful. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/83 "2007-10-21T09:09:19Z")
[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies] So, you tell me. Define “look like a dude” and “act like an asshole” in a way that will make everyone happy. [/QUOTE] If people regularly mistake you for a “dude” then you probably look like a “dude” as for what constitutes being an asshole I would say this qualifies: > [@](#): > > When I’m “questioned” I either make eye contact and say in a clear, slow, easily understandable monotone that I know exactly what restroom I’m in, and that perhaps the questioner should consider adjusting her preconceived stereotypes, or I laugh at her, depending on the level of indignant tone that may or may not accompany the questioning. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/84 "2007-10-21T09:11:30Z")
I don’t have you all figured out. I don’t like having to link to a feminist article instead of having the Google-fu to find a long list of deep scientific study on the matter. Feminist articles can sometimes be dismissed, even by me. This is a global issue, imho. You used the words “throughout the world” yourself. Cites on this topic of any kind are few and far between. I’m linking what I find as it comes. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/85 "2007-10-21T09:26:35Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] If people regularly mistake you for a “dude” then you probably look like a “dude” as for what constitutes being an asshole I would say this qualifies: [/QUOTE] Do you always implicitly trust the judgment of people you’ve never met? If someone acts like an asshole to me, sometimes I’m inclined to return the favor. The point I was making with the statement you quoted was that if I am politely questioned, I will respond in kind. I do not always add the bit about revisiting stereotypes, I do so when I feel it is necessary. I _do_ always make eye contact, and I do say in a controlled and civil manner that I know what bathroom I’m in. If someone pulls some serious attitude with me, like doing a double-take that perhaps is noticed by others in the restroom, then realizes that I’m a woman, but proceeds to make a show of questioning me anyway, in a pathetic attempt to save herself from what she considers an embarrassing situation that was my fault, because I’m the one who caused her to do the double take…those are the ones who get the laughter. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/86 "2007-10-21T09:38:13Z")
Cookies- You seem to demand tolerance and acceptance but you don’t seem to be willing to extend the same courtesy to the vast majority of us poor schmoes for whom “gender identity” is not really an issue. Many of us go about our daily lives and never give a second thought to “gender identity”. Many if not most people see absolutely no need or benefit from unisex bathrooms. I think you need to step back and try to get a little perspective on this issue because it is not by any stretch of the imagination a “global issue”. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/87 "2007-10-21T13:26:28Z")
[QUOTE=wendigo1974] That men who claim to be women should be allowed free access to Women’s Restrooms? [/quote] If those “men who claim to be women” are indeed transgendered, then yes. > [@wendigo1974](#): > > Or that women who claim to be women that just look like men should be allowed free access to Women’s Restrooms? Um…yes? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/88 "2007-10-21T13:55:24Z")
[QUOTE= CTTDSWHC] I suspect some whooshing is amiss. I am a woman, a lesbian, I am often “sir’d”, I often encounter women in the rest room who think I’m in the wrong place, and the linked story resonates with me because of the “that could’ve been me” factor. That is the “questioning” scenario that was being discussed above. However, I will point out that there is a whole sea of other situations involving gender-bending and bathroom facilities (such as the scenarios you refer to) that could also be avoided with unisex bathrooms. [/QUOTE] OK, I get that. I was under a different impression. And I think the term “unisex bathroom” is a little misleading. Or maybe it’s not. I don’t care, personally, about two or three one-person, one-stall bathrooms. That seems perfectly normal to me. An “Ally McBeal” style situation in a public place would be a recipe for disaster and entirely unwarranted. To be honest, I don’t even care if a woman comes into a men’s bathroom to use the stall (although why any woman would want to, given the state of some men’s bathrooms at happy hour, is beyond me). It’s typical where I’m from for her boyfriend or a passerby to “throw a block” by standing in front of the stall just in case. ---
**Author:** ![Fetchund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b2d939/32.png) [@Fetchund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fetchund)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/89 "2007-10-21T15:59:45Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Scrappy Hero Pup] An “Ally McBeal” style situation in a public place would be a recipe for disaster and entirely unwarranted. [/QUOTE] Help, please. I never saw “Ally McBeal” and don’t know what you are describing… Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/90 "2007-10-21T17:05:11Z")
[QUOTE=Fetchund] Help, please. I never saw “Ally McBeal” and don’t know what you are describing… Thanks. [/QUOTE] _Ally McBeal_ was a TV show about a law firm that had a unisex bathroom. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/91 "2007-10-21T18:39:21Z")
God-damned commie anti-‘merican flag burnin’ hippies. Hair so long y’all cain’t tell if it’s a man or a woman. Should be made t’ enlist and be sent t’ 'nam. Yup. That’ll learn 'em good. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/92 "2007-10-21T19:25:53Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Which part of the situation. If you’re of one sex and don’t look sterrotypically like that sex, and then adopt the dress and look of the opposite sex and are questioned, I see nothing wrong with that. Now if you are a woman, I think you should use the women’s room. Just don’t be so fucking high and might or so touchy if you’re questioned. [/QUOTE] No one, not even the woman at the center of this imbroglio, is offended about being mistaken for a man. It’s everything that happened after the mistake that’s offensive, not the original mis-identification. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/93 "2007-10-21T19:49:32Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] No one, not even the woman at the center of this imbroglio, is offended about being mistaken for a man. It’s everything that happened after the mistake that’s offensive, not the original mis-identification. [/QUOTE] I was not referring to the woman involved in the incident, but rather, some people posting in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/94 "2007-10-21T20:12:32Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] I was not referring to the woman involved in the incident, but rather, some people posting in this thread. [/QUOTE] That would be me, yes? Do you acknowledge that there is a spectrum of potential tones and attitudes that can be involved in these confrontations within the restroom? I’ve already said that I do not bite the heads off of just any woman who at first thinks I’m in the wrong place. If I am confronted with hostility, I may very well get icy with my response. If it is implied that I am “to blame” in the whole awkward situation, I will imply that perhaps there if anything is to “be blamed” for the situation, it would be out-dated stereotypes. If I experienced what allegedly happened in Manhattan, I could see myself making more of a scene than this woman did, once it became apparent that speaking to me or looking at my identification did not rectify the situation. It would depend on the situation. There are some situations where I would find an exchange offensive, an “honest mistake” not being one of them. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/95 "2007-10-21T20:26:39Z")
You sure have toned down your response from post #69. Seems like two different posters actually. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/96 "2007-10-21T20:26:43Z")
> [@](#): > > If it is implied that I am “to blame” in the whole awkward situation, I will imply that perhaps there if anything is to “be blamed” for the situation, it would be out-dated stereotypes. But that’s the thing. These aren’t “outdated stereotypes”. In almost all day-to-day encounters my minimal expectations for male and female presentation are met without a hitch. Even though there is a growing and proper acceptance of fringe sexual identities, there isn’t really that much of a change in the mainstream to “out-date” the stereotypes. IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/97 "2007-10-21T20:55:47Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > You sure have toned down your response from post #69. Seems like two different posters actually. This is a vitriolic pit thread prompted by a situation that pisses me off. Some of my posts have contained vitriol because people have either not read previous statements, have jumped to conclusions, or have said things that were worthy of vitriol all on their own. [QUOTE=CarnalK] But that’s the thing. These aren’t “outdated stereotypes”. In almost all day-to-day encounters my minimal expectations for male and female presentation are met without a hitch. Even though there is a growing and proper acceptance of fringe sexual identities, there isn’t really that much of a change in the mainstream to “out-date” the stereotypes. IMHO. [/QUOTE] Then we seem to disagree on this fundamental point. Also, I provided a series of examples in the other thread that have nothing to do with “fringe sexual identities”. - A double-mastectomy cancer survivor with no hair due to chemo. - A woman in a baggy jumpsuit/coveralls and a baseball cap. - A woman with facial hair. How common, in your world view, do such situations (confrontations…sometimes unreasonable or hostile…based on misinterpretation/misunderstandings involving gender) have to become until you would be comfortable with society needing to revisit gender norms? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/98 "2007-10-21T21:01:52Z")
[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies] That would be me, yes? [/QUOTE] Well, not only you. But yeah, you. Which you should know already because I quoted you when I posted that. AND you responded to it, using those very words (posts #67 and #69). All of which makes me want to remind you of my suggestion: ease the fuck up! Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![wendigo1974](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@wendigo1974](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wendigo1974)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/99 "2007-10-21T21:22:12Z")
I have not been convinced the bouncer has done anything wrong. I can “understand” how a woman may be extremely upset at being labelled a man and evicted from a ladies toilet. In the same way someone who is over 21 can be accused of being underage and there ID ignored and subsequently shown the door. It happens, and the bar/restaurant reserve the right not to serve and exclude people from their premises. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377/100 "2007-10-21T21:23:54Z")
[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies] - A double-mastectomy cancer survivor with no hair due to chemo. - A woman in a baggy jumpsuit/coveralls and a baseball cap. - A woman with facial hair. [/QUOTE] Wow. Anyone else getting turned on? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamn-fucking-right-she-should-sue/423377.md?page=6)