[QUOTE=kaylasdad99]
Izzat so?
What does “Noter” mean? I’m pretty sure what a dame is.
[/QUOTE]
sigh Look, the idea is that the college takes its name from Notre Dame in France, but pronounces it differently. Because, you know, they can call themselves whatever they damn well please, and “Noter Dame” is even a reasonable American approximation. Here’s the thing: it’s their name. They can say it however they like.
[QUOTE=HowieReynolds]
I’m not saying the SEC is too hard, I’m saying the Big East is too easy.
[/QUOTE]
According to you. According to the BCS rules, the ACC is the one in line to lose their BCS spot currently. FSU was the BCS team with by far the worst BCS score to make it in. Therefore, they’re the conference on the spot, according to the powers that be.
That’s true, the ACC hasn’t been that great recently. FSU in the BCS last year was a joke. But it is middle-heavy. There’s lots of decent teams like Virginia Tech, Miami, FSU, Ga Tech, Wake, and Boston College that aren’t threats to win a national title, but can be difficult to play against, particularly when they’re at home. Even as bad as FSU and Miami have been this year, wouldn’t you rather play at South Florida than in Tallahassee or Coral Gables?
I would say Clemson is at least as good as West Virginia this year. They’ve had to play at Boston College, at Florida State, at Wake Forest, and home to Georgia Tech. All four of those games are harder than any games the Mountaineers have played so far, and Clemson went 3-1 in them. I would argue a one-loss Clemson team could be more deserving of a shot at the NC than an undefeated WV, assuming Clemson keeps looking as good as they have so far.
[QUOTE=HowieReynolds]
<snip>I’m a Gator fan, and from my objective analysis, if we played WV ten times, we win at least seven. <snip>(bolding added)
[/QUOTE]
The word you’re looking for there Howie is subjective not objective. Your use of the word “we” is probably overbroad too as I’m doubting you suited up for your beloved Gators anytime recently.
Personally, I think the West Virginia Moutaineers are a damn tough team. YMMV.
[QUOTE=Captain Carrot]
sigh Look, the idea is that the college takes its name from Notre Dame in France, but pronounces it differently. Because, you know, they can call themselves whatever they damn well please, and “Noter Dame” is even a reasonable American approximation. Here’s the thing: it’s their name. They can say it however they like.
[/QUOTE]
Sure, if they want to sound like ignorant hayseeds.
Look, it’s (at least nominally) a Catholic school. And if you ask the president of the school to tell you what the name signifies, he’s going to tell you that it was chosen in honor of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of Jesus Christ our Savior.
“Dame,” pronounced the way a Damon Runyon character would put it, kinda detracts from its ability to be seen as “honoring” anybody at all. Allowing this kind of devolution of what is to be considered correct French pronunciation will eventually lead to people referring to the school as “Noter Floozie.”
But you could be right. After all, the place is run by Irish priests, and with as many years as I have of hearing how they pronounce Latin, I shouldn’t be surprised by anything they come up with.
Packs ve-BISS-come. 
[QUOTE=zamboniracer]
The word you’re looking for there Howie is subjective not objective. Your use of the word “we” is probably overbroad too as I’m doubting you suited up for your beloved Gators anytime recently.
Personally, I think the West Virginia Moutaineers are a damn tough team. YMMV.
[/QUOTE]
No, objective was the word I was looking for. I think sarcasm is the concept you are looking for. I admitted to my bias, but if Florida played West Virginia on a neutral field, my Gators would be solid favorites, I’m pretty sure of that.
I agree that WV is a “damn tough team.” But I don’t think they’re as good as Tennessee, Auburn, Florida, Ohio State, Michigan, or Texas. I think they’re about on the same level as Clemson, USC, LSU, Arkansas, Louisville, Cal, and Wisconsin.
If West Virginia goes unbeaten, I still think a one-loss SEC team should go ahead of them. I think people are wrong assuming WVU is being punished for being in a weak conference. The perspective is we should reward other team for their more rigorous schedule. If anything, you’re unfairly punishing teams that are not in the Big East.
You have two runners running the hurdles. One has short hurdles, the other other has high ones. The short-hurdle runner finishes one-second ahead. Is it fair to say the short hurdle runner is better?
To continue (stupid hamsters):
The same argument came up in 1997 between Michigan and Nebraska. Both teams went unbeaten. However,
[ul]
[li] NU had the tougher schedule: Nebraska had 5 opponents in the final rankings (2 in the top 10), while Michigan had 3 (none in the top 10). [/li][li] Versus that tougher slate, NU’s average score was 47-16 (31 point margin), while Michigan was 27-10 (17 point margin). [/li][li] In their showcase bowl game, NU beat #3 by 25 and UM beat #8 by 5 (pre-BCS, they could not play each other).[/li][/ul]
Besides their 0-loss records, the two teams were clearly not equal. However, they ended up sharing a title, with NU, not Michigan, being the more controversial pick (yeah, I know).
[QUOTE=The Swan]
Why did you choose those four? Convenience?
[/QUOTE]
Because they’re supposedly the strongest teams in the mighty SEC.
Arkansas is ranked higher than LSU…ok
USC, Utah State, SE Missouri St, and Lousiana-Monroe…1 good game, 3 scrubs
Georgia (unranked)
Western Kentucky, Alabama-Birmingham, Colorado and Georgia Tech…once again, 1 good game, 3 scrubs
[QUOTE=HowieReynolds]
No, objective was the word I was looking for. I think sarcasm is the concept you are looking for. I admitted to my bias, but if Florida played West Virginia on a neutral field, my Gators would be solid favorites, I’m pretty sure of that.
I agree that WV is a “damn tough team.” But I don’t think they’re as good as Tennessee, Auburn, Florida, Ohio State, Michigan, or Texas. I think they’re about on the same level as Clemson, USC, LSU, Arkansas, Louisville, Cal, and Wisconsin.
[/QUOTE]
Yep, a team that averages 300+ rushing yards and puts up over 40 points per game is a team that would be laughed right out of the stadium. Ohh, I forgot, the worst teams in the SEC could beat any team in the NFL…sorry.
[QUOTE=beergeek279]
Yep, a team that averages 300+ rushing yards and puts up over 40 points per game is a team that would be laughed right out of the stadium. Ohh, I forgot, the worst teams in the SEC could beat any team in the NFL…sorry.
[/QUOTE]
Did you read my post? Please, read my post. I like West Virginia, they have their best team since I can remember. But they don’t quite belong with the elite teams this year. I’ve bet on them twice, and watched them barely cover both times. I agreed with zamboni, they are a “damn tough team.” I’ve never once made excuses for the crap teams in the SEC; there are a few of them, and they really suck. But there are also three top-notch teams, teams who I think would definitely be favored if they played WVU. And there are two more teams who would be evenly matched up with the Mountaineers. If they were in the SEC, they would have to play at least three of those five teams. Since they’re in the Big East, they only play one team (Louisville) that’s as talented as they are. So therefore, I think a one-loss Auburn, Florida, or Tennessee (or even Arkansas, if they manage to win out) team might be more deserving of playing in the NC game than an undefeated West Virginia who hasn’t played anyone good yet, and hasn’t looked great (good, but not great) against the bad teams they have played.
[QUOTE=HowieReynolds]
Did you read my post? Please, read my post. I like West Virginia, they have their best team since I can remember. But they don’t quite belong with the elite teams this year. I’ve bet on them twice, and watched them barely cover both times. I agreed with zamboni, they are a “damn tough team.” I’ve never once made excuses for the crap teams in the SEC; there are a few of them, and they really suck. But there are also three top-notch teams, teams who I think would definitely be favored if they played WVU. And there are two more teams who would be evenly matched up with the Mountaineers. If they were in the SEC, they would have to play at least three of those five teams. Since they’re in the Big East, they only play one team (Louisville) that’s as talented as they are. So therefore, I think a one-loss Auburn, Florida, or Tennessee (or even Arkansas, if they manage to win out) team might be more deserving of playing in the NC game than an undefeated West Virginia who hasn’t played anyone good yet, and hasn’t looked great (good, but not great) against the bad teams they have played.
[/QUOTE]
I’m just asking why, other than conference affiliation, that WVU is automatically going in as an underdog against the best team (statistics and matchups would be nice here)
I admit that the biggest weakness the team has is pass defense, with a very young secondary and a pass rush that, until recently, was lacking. The 3-3-5 stack defense is also very strong against running.
But WVU also has the #1 rushing attack in Division 1, and the best backfield trio (including the highly underrated beast Owen Schmitt at fullback) out there. From a game that doesn’t reach 150 yards passing, they also manage to continuously put up 40 points a game, even against the best teams, thanks to the spread offense.
I just don’t see why they’re automatically chumps.
Incidentally, that’s a bit unfair to describe them as mediocre because they’ve barely covered when most of their spreads have been above 21 points. I wouldn’t bet on a 21-point spread…much too dangerous.
Football conversations make my brain glaze over. Is this still about Notre Dame, or has everybody already finished talking about how much they hate them (or otherwise), and moved onto West Virginia?
'Cos I don’t have any gripes about how anyone pronounces West Virginia.
[QUOTE=Lissa]
Wow, why do people hate Notre Dame so much?
[/QUOTE]
Well here’s my list:
There are probably more that I can’t think of right now.
I’m a practicing Catholic. I’m also a Purdue grad/fan and I’ve been pissed off the past few years.
*I’m not arguing that one cannot cheer for a college team without every attending the school. Just don’t act like you’re better than everyone else because you *root * for Notre Dame.
Let’s say USC beats Cal on Nov 18, and USC beats Notre Dame on Nov 25; and USC winds up #2, and goes to the NC game. This leaves the Rose Bowl without their traditional tie-in (the Pac-10 champion), so they get to pick an at-large team.
Both Cal and NC are 10-2.
Cal fans *know * that the Rose Bowl will screw them out of the Rose Bowl – *our * bowl – and pick ND. Because they’re special.
[QUOTE=beergeek279]
I’m just asking why, other than conference affiliation, that WVU is automatically going in as an underdog against the best team (statistics and matchups would be nice here)
I admit that the biggest weakness the team has is pass defense, with a very young secondary and a pass rush that, until recently, was lacking. The 3-3-5 stack defense is also very strong against running.
But WVU also has the #1 rushing attack in Division 1, and the best backfield trio (including the highly underrated beast Owen Schmitt at fullback) out there. From a game that doesn’t reach 150 yards passing, they also manage to continuously put up 40 points a game, even against the best teams, thanks to the spread offense.
I just don’t see why they’re automatically chumps.
Incidentally, that’s a bit unfair to describe them as mediocre because they’ve barely covered when most of their spreads have been above 21 points. I wouldn’t bet on a 21-point spread…much too dangerous.
[/QUOTE]
Forty points a game against the best teams? I don’t consider Maryland, Syracuse, and Mississippi State to be the best teams. And they struggled to put up 40 in those games, so I’m pretty sure they couldn’t do it against an elite team. WV had trouble putting the game away against each of those teams, and their defense allowed meaningful touchdowns. I don’t really like judging a team by how bad they beat crappy teams, but that’s my only option with them at this point.
Say WV were to play at Florida. I think the Gators would be 7.5 point favorites. We have a superb rushing defense, quite possibly the best in the nation. Only one rushing touchdown allowed all year. WV has a fantastic rushing game, but they won’t even come close to their productivity against the bad teams they’ve played so far. I would be surprised if they could score 14 points against Florida. And they would get similar results against other top tier teams like Michigan, Texas and Ohio State.
The Mountaineers certainly aren’t “chumps.” They’re just ranked higher than they should be because they haven’t had to play any tough games. The polls don’t seem to realize that a 6-1 team can be better than a 7-0 team. Look at the computer rankings used in the BCS. Computer polls are, of course, not perfect, but they don’t sort their rankings by number of losses like the human polls seem to do. WV is 14th in computer average. Are the computers SEC homers, or do they have some measure of objectivity?
[QUOTE=jsc1953]
Let’s say USC beats Cal on Nov 18, and USC beats Notre Dame on Nov 25; and USC winds up #2, and goes to the NC game. This leaves the Rose Bowl without their traditional tie-in (the Pac-10 champion), so they get to pick an at-large team.
Both Cal and NC are 10-2.
Cal fans *know * that the Rose Bowl will screw them out of the Rose Bowl – *our * bowl – and pick ND. Because they’re special.
[/QUOTE]
Actually, they would have to pick ND. Notre Dame (because they’re special) has a deal where if they are in the top 12 (I think) they automatically get an at-large bid to a BCS game. Even if it means passing up a higher ranked Cal team. Another quality reason to hate Notre Dame. But it does mean they often have to play against a team much better than them, so we get to watch them get blown out more often. Always fun.
[QUOTE=HowieReynolds]
Actually, they would have to pick ND. Notre Dame (because they’re special) has a deal where if they are in the top 12 (I think) they automatically get an at-large bid to a BCS game. Even if it means passing up a higher ranked Cal team. Another quality reason to hate Notre Dame. But it does mean they often have to play against a team much better than them, so we get to watch them get blown out more often. Always fun.
[/QUOTE]
Not true. If they finish in the Top Eight, they get an automatic berth to the BCS. But that doesn’t mean that the Rose Bowl would HAVE to take them in. Just that one of the BCS bowls would.
The Rose Bowl (assuming that jsc’s scenario came though) would get two make-up picks that they would take before everybody else got a chance to pick. The teams they couldn’t pick would be the BCS #1 and #2, and the host teams for the other bowls — that’s the SEC champ/ACC champ/Big XII champ. So they could choose from all other BCS eligible teams for the rest.
Eventually SOME BCS bowl would have to take ND, but it wouldn’t have to be the Rose Bowl.
Here’s a cite for that. It’s also a good resource for figuring out which way is up, when we get to the endgame of this season.
[QUOTE=HowieReynolds]
I don’t really like judging a team by how bad they beat crappy teams, but that’s my only option with them at this point.
[/QUOTE]
OK…let’s agree to disagree for the time being and have this discussion again after the Louisville game.
According to CBS Sports - News, Live Scores, Schedules, Fantasy Games, Video and more. - CBS Sports as a stats site,
Louisville is #9 in rushing defense with 74.9 ypg allowed,
10th with 280.1 yards passing per game,
and 8th in scoring defense with 88 points given up on the season.
Fair enough??
[QUOTE=beergeek279]
OK…let’s agree to disagree for the time being and have this discussion again after the Louisville game.
According to CBS Sports - News, Live Scores, Schedules, Fantasy Games, Video and more. - CBS Sports as a stats site,
Louisville is #9 in rushing defense with 74.9 ypg allowed,
10th with 280.1 yards passing per game,
and 8th in scoring defense with 88 points given up on the season.
Fair enough??
[/QUOTE]
Louisville is a good team (and they brought me much joy when they whipped Miami) but they too would be a mid tier SEC team. They’ve achieved those defensive numbers against the likes of Syracuse, Cincinnati, and Middle Tennessee State. They gave up 28 points to Kentucky (although that was the first game of the season.) So WV better score at least 30 if they want to impress me.