# Goddamned motherfucking FOX network
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [April 4, 2004, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162 "2004-04-04T06:22:17Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2004, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/21 "2004-04-04T16:28:32Z")
> [@Jaade](#):
>
> I have to agree with **Diogenes** , even though I didn’t watch the show, my reasons were the same as his for not liking it.
😕 How can you not like the show if you never seen it?
I’ve never watched Joan of Arcadia, so I can’t tell you if the two shows are anything alike besides a loosely similar premise. I read about it when they were talking about all the new shows and what’s good, what’s bad, etc. For whatever reason, JoA just didn’t appeal to me, but because I’ve never seen it I wouldn’t say I don’t like it. I just don’t watch it.
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### Author:  [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/22 "2004-04-04T17:05:28Z")
> [@Cerri](#):
>
> I’m personally still pissed at them for cancelling The Kindred, and that was back in…geez…98?
I remember trying to watch that…
I think it’s out on DVD now, if you’re feeling nostalgic.
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### Author:  [@flamingbananas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flamingbananas)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2004, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/23 "2004-04-04T17:11:29Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> I’ve been disappointed when some shows didn’t make it (Family Guy, for instance).
Family Guy wasn’t cancled due to low ratings, it was cancled because they mad an offensive episode against Jews. I think Family Guy is coming back though. That DVD rocks, we have it and I always laugh my head off.
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### Author:  [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2004, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/24 "2004-04-04T17:18:22Z")
> [@flamingbananas](#):
>
> Family Guy wasn’t cancled due to low ratings, it was cancled because they mad an offensive episode against Jews. I think Family Guy is coming back though. That DVD rocks, we have it and I always laugh my head off.
You’re partially wrong. Seth MacFarlane the producer of _The Family Guy_ has stated numerous times that it was **ratings** which killed _The Family Guy_ (for an extensive collection of interviews with MacFarlane see [here](http://www.familyguyfiles.com/main.php).) The _When You Wish Upon a Weinstein_ episode was approved in script form by the censors at Fox, it was only **after** they shot it, that the censors blocked the episode. (It’s since aired on CN, BTW.) MacFarlane is **not** bitter with Fox about the whole deal (shouldn’t be, since they’re not only bringing FG back, but have given him a new series as well).
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### Author:  [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/25 "2004-04-04T17:41:24Z")
> [@Cerri](#):
>
> I’m personally still pissed at them for cancelling The Kindred, and that was back in…geez…98?
>
> Somewhere around there…I think the guy who played Julian Luna died in 98, so it had to have been shortly before that.
I got curious about this show (never having seen it) so I looked it up. Looks interesting, and yes, the DVD and VHS versions of the show are out.
And actor [Mark Frankel](http://www.mark-frankel.com/gallery.asp) died in 1996. Damn. He looks familiar but I didn’t know he’d died. What a terrible waste.
As far as Fox goes, I’d started to get really hooked on _Wonderfalls_ and figured, with Fox’s track record, that maybe I’d get 8-13 episodes out of this show before they gave it the inevitable axe. I didn’t expect that they’d do it after **four** episodes. That’s just absurd. Why do they even bother? I think it must be so that no one else can get to it—that’s what someone else suggested either here or in the Pit thread, and I’m thinking that there must be something to that.
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### Author:  [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/26 "2004-04-04T17:52:47Z")
I call this “Boomtown Syndrome”.
Boomtown was new and fresh. Boomtown won a slew of awards it’s first season. Boomtown had a great cast, and good writers. Boomtown was bold and it’s format(for TV shows), revolutionary.
I should have known that the second season wouldn’t survive. Apparently, the format was a little too much for the “drooling masses” sitting in front of their TVs.
:rolleyes: I feel your pain, OP’er.
Sam
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### Author:  [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2004, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/27 "2004-04-04T20:11:13Z")
> [@yosemitebabe](#):
>
> I think it must be so that no one else can get to it—that’s what someone else suggested either here or in the Pit thread, and I’m thinking that there must be something to that.
That was me: Queen of the Conspiracy Theory.
> [@GaWd](#):
>
> I call this “Boomtown Syndrome”.
At least you didn’t call it “Cop Rock Syndrome”. 😛
Don’t let my laughter fool ya - tears of a clown, man. I’m this (|-|) close to boycotting FOX altogether.
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### Author:  [@mrunlucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrunlucky)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/28 "2004-04-04T20:43:07Z")
I have to say that before _Wonderfalls_ ever aired its pilot, I knew it would get cancelled. I predicted this because it looked quirky, and clever, and unique. Dumb shows, dime a dozen dumb shows, go on and on, often for years. Unique shows on Fox don’t make it.
I am intrigued by Fox’s new love of mini-season reality shows where less than 6 episodes are even made. That way, if the shows fail in ratings, no big investment lost. Has that new Molly Shannon comedy been cancelled yet? It seemed a little too “unpredictable”. Need to make room for another great reality show pitting men versus infants in tests of strength or I.Q. Or a people afflicted with gigantism dating show. Or that new extreme pet make-over show that ends in a talent contest. Ah, quality reasons to watch television in the first place.
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### Author:  [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/29 "2004-04-04T21:17:10Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#):
>
> What do you expect in a society of people for whom most thought that a televised prime time and involuntary viewing of a “wardrobe malfunction” was either funny or “no big deal”?
I can only assume you’re not talking about the United States here. IIRC there was quite an outrage about those two seconds of nipple…
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### Author:  [@flamingbananas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flamingbananas)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/30 "2004-04-04T21:44:12Z")
> [@Mauvaise](#):
>
> . I’m this (|-|) close to boycotting FOX altogether.
The only reason I watch FOX anymore is for during the week The Simpsons and That 70s show. If they cancled Simpsons and That 70s Show moved to another night, FOX would be dead to me.
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### Author:  [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/31 "2004-04-04T22:38:40Z")
It’s too bad they didn’t give it a chance. I didn’t much like the show very much. I saw it right after an episode of Joan of Arcadia (which I happen to like). Wonderfalls just seemed a little too similar but I didn’t find the main character all that likeable. It did have one actor that I like, Gabriel Hogan, in it but when it was clear he was only in one episode, I had no reason to watch it again. I just never had any feelings for any of the main characters for some reason?
But 4 episodes? Fox either does whatever it can to make sure a show is cancelled or it has it’s head shoved firmly in it’s ass.
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### Author:  [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2004, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/32 "2004-04-04T22:54:35Z")
Speaking ex cathedra out of my hat, here, there are any number of reasons a show can get cancelled. I present here an incomplete list…
1. \*\*Ratings. \*\* Duh.
2. **Expense.** If a studio decides the show’s cost counteracts the profit factor, that’s it, bye-bye. Star Trek shows are like this; one of the reasons they have so much leeway is because they tend to be profitable in other ways, like merchandising.
3. \*\*Infighting (Cast). \*\* This is what killed the beloved Welcome Back Kotter series, in the seventies. It boiled down to Everyone Hates Gabe Kaplan, to the point where the series self-destructed. Something similar happened on Cheers, except that most of the friction was simply between the two stars, with the other actors largely avoiding taking sides.
4. \*\*Infighting (network). \*\* This occurs when a given network executive decides to play King Of The Hill with a given actor, producer, creator, or whatever. Rumor has it that one of the reasons Firefly died a quick death was because Fox executives were pissed at him for the schrecklicheit he generated in the press when he and Fox were duking it out over Buffy. In short, it could be accurately said that the network sabotages a show, and then hangs the blame securely on the creator, despite the fact that he never really had a chance.
5. \*\*Want money NOW! \*\* This is a regular one. A show is generally given five to eight episodes to get its feet under it and show some results. After that, it’s up to the network to decide whether or not to keep investing… and they generally begin to think about this decision after the third, fourth, or fifth episode. A show can get canned as fast as its fifth episode, if the network really doesn’t like it, or if they have a particularly promising replacement in the wings…
6. **Sponsor exodus.** For some reason or another, sponsors come and sponsors go. Either that, or two or more sponsors take exception to material on the show. I suspect this is what happened with \*Family Guy’s \* episode… The show MIGHT hang on – (\*Saturday Night Live \* did, even after several sponsors complained, but SNL was the network president’s baby at the time) or might not, depending on who can stand up for it, and how much clout is applied.
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### Author:  [@Wumpus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wumpus)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2004, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/33 "2004-04-04T23:24:31Z")
> [@Master Wang-Ka](#):
>
> 1. Expense. If a studio decides the show’s cost counteracts the profit factor, that’s it, bye-bye. Star Trek shows are like this; one of the reasons they have so much leeway is because they tend to be profitable in other ways, like merchandising…
>
> 2. Want money NOW! This is a regular one. A show is generally given five to eight episodes to get its feet under it and show some results. After that, it’s up to the network to decide whether or not to keep investing… and they generally begin to think about this decision after the third, fourth, or fifth episode. A show can get canned as fast as its fifth episode, if the network really doesn’t like it, or if they have a particularly promising replacement in the wings…
Thing is, Wonderfalls has 13 episodes in the can. Only 4 were shown before the axe fell: there’s no announced plan to show the rest. Meaning that Fox has pissed away money on 9 unseen episodes that, if they’re shown at all, will be dumped in weird summer timeslots guaranteed to get even crappier ratings than the 4 original episodes did.
Meanwhile, what are they going to replace it with that will get better ratings on Thursday nights? I kinda doubt Fox has an ace up their sleeve that will blow away The Apprentice in its final two week. Instead they’ll rerun some low-rated crappy reality show in that slot and rationalize it by saying, “At least it didn’t cost us anything extra”–forgetting that they have 9 paid-for episodes of Wonderfalls mouldering unseen.
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### Author:  [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/34 "2004-04-04T23:49:08Z")
> [@Mr2001](#):
>
> I can only assume you’re not talking about the United States here. IIRC there was quite an outrage about those two seconds of nipple…
And a HELL of a lot of “oh, people are being silly it was no big deal” from both the entertainment industry, and the public in general, if you go back to the Boob Thread that was here in the pit, you’ll see that there were a bunch of people shrugging it off as of no more consequence than a pratfall.
But perhaps you’re right, and that was a bad example to use. By and large, to me, it looks like the “let’s get base and sleazy” crowd far outnumbers the “can we keep it clean and non-boogered” crowd.
Just mho.
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### Author:  [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/35 "2004-04-05T01:07:16Z")
Remember that time a few years back, when FOX made the same boneheaded decision to place a hot new show on Thursday nights, right up against _The Cosby Show_ no less.
That show got 15 years.
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### Author:  [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2004, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/36 "2004-04-05T01:21:22Z")
> [@capacitor](#):
>
> Remember that time a few years back, when FOX made the same boneheaded decision to place a hot new show on Thursday nights, right up against _The Cosby Show_ no less.
>
> That show got 15 years.
And it’s currently airing on Sunday nights, where it’s been for the past umpteen years.
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### Author:  [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2004, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/37 "2004-04-05T02:05:45Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#):
>
> And it’s currently airing on Sunday nights, where it’s been for the past umpteen years.
_The Simpsons_ was _well_ established as a powerhouse when it moved from Thursday.
I want to tag on a little mini-Fox rant myself- Why, oh why do you insist on spoiling every episode of _24_ at the beginning of the broadcast?!
Speaking of which, _24_ is a good example of what can happen with a little patience and a lot of promotion. They promoted the shit out of _24_ before it debuted (which was delayed by 9/11/01, giving it several more months of promotion). They’ve stuck with it, and it’s slowly but surely built up a respectable fan base.
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### Author:  [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2004, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/38 "2004-04-05T03:46:13Z")
I’m another one that only watches Fox for The Simpsons, Futurama and Family Guy (until Fox killed them), i don’t even seriously watch the Simpsons anymore, if it’s on while i’m channel surfing, great, but i won’t go out of my way to watch it
i also have a similar hatred of the sci-fi channel, first they killed MST3K (after comedy central dumped them first), then they killed Farscape, once Farscape ended, i downgraded my cable connection to bare-bones cable, since there was nothing worth watching on sci-fi, and sci-fi channel was the only “enhanced” channel i watched, as fox was available on basic cable
since fox killed Futurama and Family guy, i have no need to watch anything on fox either, i haven’t watched TV regularly in at least 6 months, i just keep re-watching my DVD’s and surfing the web, i get more entertainment out of them
the upside of me switching to bare-bones cable is i have more money availible to complete my Farscape DVD collection, it’s currently up to date and i am only waiting for the release of sets 4.4 and 4.5
happily, much like Family Guy, Farscape is coming back, originally for a 4 hour miniseries, but my gut instinct tells me that the miniseries is just a precursor to continuing the series on another network, one that respects them
i certainly hope that Family Guy and Farscape find better homes on networks that won’t frell them over, now all we need is for the return of Futurama and MST3K and i’ll be happy
frell you sci-fi, and frell you fox!
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### Author:  [@Jaade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaade)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2004, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/39 "2004-04-05T04:17:41Z")
> [@Mauvaise](#):
>
> 😕 How can you not like the show if you never seen it?
Ok, maybe I should state it differently. I felt, due to the reasons that **Diogenes** listed, I would not like the show, therefore I never bothered to actually sit through the whole thing. I obviously cannot unequivocally state that I would not have liked the show, but I know my tastes, and that show did not appeal to me.
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### Author:  [@Nutty\_Bunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nutty_Bunny)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2004, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goddamned-motherfucking-fox-network/238162/40 "2004-04-05T13:13:59Z")
I’m another one who was upset when **Family Guy** was cancelled. And **Undeclared**. And **Futurama**.
I fear that **Arrested Development** ’s days are numbered as well. I’m surprised it’s lasted this long. I tried watching **Cracking Up** a couple of times, but I thought it was trying to hard to be edgy.
**Mauvais** , I never saw **Wonderfalls** since the premise didn’t appeal to me, but if **Family Guy** was cancelled after 4 episodes, I would have been highly pissed.
When they air a brand new show on Friday nights, how do they expect it to garner a sizable audience after only 4 episodes? What happened to bouncing it around the schedule to see what night works best?
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