I just saw The Hours. Would Meryl Streep and her girlfriend’s portrayal of their relationship be considered not stereotypical and just flat-out normal, like everyone else? For that reason alone, I loved the whole exchange between them and the movie as a whole. Highly recommend!
How long were the only black characters Stepin Fetchits and Buckwheats?
How long until James Earl Jones could play Othello?
The minority character first enters the culture as a clown.
While I mostly agree with your post, I must take exception to these shallow whitebread middle class wannabes being a good portrayal of gays. Not a sympathetic character in the bunch, IMO.
Now, onto the OP…
Bravo can use “queer,” dear. Didn’t you get the memo from the Gay Meeting of '99 that “queer” has been fully appropriated as positive word? A codicil in the Meeting of '01 allowed for non-GLBTs to use it provided it was not intentionally inveighed as a derogatory.
As a usage note, it seems that queer is being used as a handy way to avoid the clumsy “Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, & Transgendered” phrase.
Bravo can especially use it since it is becoming a de facto queer channel. The series on Gay Weddings was excellent. The upcoming Boy Meets Boy reality game show is pure trash, but not so much more so than Fox’s straight fare.
Bravo is an arts channel. That makes it a gay channel. Is that a stereotype. Yep. It’s also the reality.
So, let straight men watch the New TNN (or Spike) channel. Queers will watch along for the homoeroticism of professional wrestling. And let queers watch Bravo, and straight men will watch QE4tSM for tips on how to be attractive to women (so they can get some sex, of course).
Peace.
I think QE4tSG will be fantabulous!
I’m sorry, who are you that you would speak to me in this fashion?
As to the question, given the choice between stereotypes on TV and no representations of any kind on TV, I’ll take the stereotypes. If stereotypes is what it takes to crack open the window so that non-stereotypical portrayals make it on-air, then three cheers for stereotypes.
That being said, the OP is making big assumptions based on what evidence? The show has not been on the air yet. I haven’t seen more than about 30 seconds of it myself, in promos. If the big objection is that it portrays stereotypes or gay men acting stereotypically, then the criticism is unfair (or at least premature) unless the OP has seen the show. If the big objection is the word “queer” in the title, then I’m not feeling it. I’m all about reclaiming the negative words.
FWIW, as a heterosexual I’m not offended at all by this.
I think the target audience for this show is contemporary enough to realize they’re not painting everyone with the same brush in using a title like that. Frankly, I think this show will be hilarious.
If you read this article from yesterday’s Chronicle you’ll see that the producers went to great lengths to not try and insult any of their straight “projects” in a malicious way.
Re-e-e-e-e-etchh!
In addition to some of the movies/shows listed, I’d like to add the series The Wire on HBO. The show has both a lesbian couple (with one of the main characters) and gay man (a regular character), none of which I would call stereotypical. In fact, Omar is pretty much the opposite of effeminate, more along the lines of a bad-ass.
I held the same opinion about QE4TSG as the OP until a read an article about it in the NYT. At first I considered it simply another “What Not to Wear” with openly gay men as the hook, but it does seem to have other differences going for it that could make it good.
As for the stereotypes mentioned…
Self-loathers, queens, sex-crazed partying ravers, fashion conscious image obsessed… yeah they’re all stereotypes, but only if applied to the whole gay community. They speak for certain parts of a community bound together only because of their same-sex attractions, leading to a diversity in lifestyles that sometimes borders on insanity. Trying to claim the “normal average Joe Gay football jock” is any less of a stereotype would be ridiculous.
The only portrayl of gay men that rubs me the wrong way would be the “issue characters”. The gay men who only get a plot arc if it somehow deals with an issue in the community (AIDS, violence, discrimination, coming out, etc.) and rarely seems to lead a normal life of their own. Sometimes they’re given boyfriends, but rarely are the issues of such a relationship explored on the par that straight relationships in the series are, and they usually don’t last long either. The prime example I can think of would’ve been Jack on “Dawson’s Creek”. Drives me insane.
I wish they would come take over my life and re make me! I need some nice new clothes and every time I go shopping my girlfriend just shakes her head sadly:)
The irony is I am a kitchen designer (read interior) who doesn’t like organized sports, likes to cook and shop for clothes (which I can’t afford). :dubious:
Well, maybe it’s the Hollywood thing. My best friend is a gay man, so I spend a fair amount of time in West Hollywood. I see nothing wrong with the characters on Will & Grace, or many of the other aforementioned shows. Haven’t seen Queer as Folk myself, but my best friend and his buddies seem glued to it, so it seems they have no issues with that portrayal. And of course, working at Disneyland, I work every day with gay men. You know what? I don’t think the stereotypes are that far off. No more than any stereotype is likely to be (after all, you can’t typify ANYONE absolutely). I know way too many people who fit those stereotypes, and way too few who don’t, for me to take issue with those portrayals. My best friend is a combo of Will and Jack, and most of his friends lean more toward Jack.
I’ve only known one gay man who in no way fits the mold (eg: acts exactly like a straight man until he says he likes to suck dick). You know what? He KNOWS he’s the exception, not the rule.
I have more of an issue with the use of gays to play “innocents” in the way that african americans used to be used - eg: the person who doesn’t know, and doesn’t get it from the explanation. But as far as the drama queen, squealing, fashion-sporting image, sorry kids, it’s true. I know one guy who lives in West Hollywood, aspiring screenwriter, poor as dirt, but owns $80 faded jeans from some designer or another. My best friend squeals like a little girl, especially when around other gay men. And I’ve met plenty of men who meet the sophisticated, artistic, wealthy and bearded stereotype as well. There are tons of gay stereotypes, plenty of them true.
That said, I have a problem with people classifying that character in Silence of the Lambs as a gay stereotype. He was a perv stereotype, there’s a huge difference. Sexual miscreants are not all straight, after all, but I think in light of the script, he was presented as mentally unstable (visiting a shrink, Dr Lecter) perverted freakazoid who had more in common with that suspended-from-the-ceiling guy in The Cell than he does with Will or Jack.
You know, I’m with Harvey Fierstein on this one, talking about the sissy stereotype:
Never seen this show. It does sound a bit like a circus sideshow. At the same time, the almost obsessive need to scream “That’s not what we’re like!” the second a flaming queen appears on screen makes me nervous.
I like being part of a culture where masculinity and all its baggage isn’t instantly embraced. I find it strange that in the queer community, of all places, I’m increasingly expected that conform to an ideal that’s an uncomfortable fit at best.
I should also mention that in my link I gave above (here it is again for the scroll-lazy) they give a quick bio of who the five gay guys are that will be doing the makeovers. I didn’t see any sort of stereotypical over-the-top raging queen in the bunch - they look like typical normal career people to me.
A. If you ever meet me, you’ll be able to add one more to your list.
B. I don’t act like a straight man. I act like a man, period. I masculine and a perfect Kinsey 6, and I’m far from the only one here in DC, so you may have to change some of your preconceptions about how gay men behave.
And let’s please remember that Hollywood makes sideshows and novelty objects of everyone.
Frankly, if all the gay people in all the movies were to turn into Perfectly Normal Redblooded Baritone American Boys with No Wrist Joints™, I’d stop watching movies altogether.
Gobear, what does a man act like?
(Sneak preview: I’m a man. I act like me. Therefore I act like a man. The earrings and shower pouf are irrelevant.)
Y’know what? matt_mcl has a certain valid point. I have yet to see a decent description of some trait which is MALE. Why? Because there’s probably a guy out there who breaks that trait. A guy is a guy is a guy. Every time you think you’ve found a Man’s Man, you find out he likes potpourri or harlequin romances or cries when Bambi’s mother gets shot. The guy stomping around his house in dirty boots telling lewd jokes, smoking a stogie, drinking a Budweiser, while wearing raggedy jeans and a t-shirt emblazoned “I’M WITH STUPID” and an arrow pointing to his crotch probably enjoys cooking souffles for his buddies during Saturday night cards.
A man is no more and no less than a person claiming to be so (yes I include FtM transgenders). Just about everything else is optional. I couldn’t care less if every single guy on this show was a screaming queen, so long as they were good people. I don’t care if they shriek like a girl in the presence of spiders, so long as they’re an upstanding person. Is sending the message that you can be a screaming queen and a nice person really such a bad message, upon reflection?
From my personal experiences, and please note they are only mine not some universal truth which are infallible, the straight-acting gay guys aren’t the once who desperately need positive reinforcement and rolemodeling. The gay guy who’s champion quarterback of his team faces difficulties, sometimes very serious, but he feels very little shame about how he acts. He may be seriously, often dangerously, ashamed about being gay, but that is a seperate issue.
Compare the football player, All-American, Redblooded, Hunk hero of the Championship game, with the skinny kid in glasses who can’t help holding his books to his chest in a “feminine” fashion, tends to wave his hands wildly when excited, talks in a voice only slightly altered by puberty, has to really concentrate in order to keep his wrists in the “correct” position, and gets the shit kicked out of him by the football team because they’re bored, he’s walking home, and he’s the class queer, thus making him fair game. Do you think he’s particularly thrilled with that? Do you think he would’ve held onto his mannerisms if he had any real conscious control over them? Do you think he could really use someone, anyone, to show him that being nelly does not mean being inferior, that you can in fact be a superior person and gay and flaming? I do.
Its why I always liked Emmett on Queer as Folk. Absolutely flaming, but possibly the gutsiest one out of all the cast. People try to put you down, tell you that you’re not good enough? “Fuck 'em all”.
Does this have a point anymore? I dunno. Just needed to vent.
applauds daintily
And where did I say you weren’t? I was making the point that “straight-acting” is a self-defeating sham–I’m masculine because that is who I am, not because I’m trying to pass as straight. I have no desire to be seen as anything than who I am, an out, proud, gay man.
Frankly, I grow very tired of your heterophobia. You are a proud, fem, and flaming man–that’s great because that is your identity and you should always let your inner light shine.
But my light shines in a different way, and your constant insinuation that my lack of a limp wrist is somehow inauthentic, that I’m not a “real” gay man because I’m a Perfectly Normal Redblooded Baritone American Boy with No Wrist Joints™ is nothing but bigotry.
Okay, now you’re just making shit up, and I really don’t appreciate it. Where exactly did you find that in what I had to say? Where exactly did I insinuate shit about you not being a real gay man? Where the fuck* do you get heterophobia?
What you said is that you act like a man. I asked you what that meant. Whatever else you may choose to impute to me is entirely your own responsibility.
Do you even read your own posts?
Tell me that’s not the mirror image of the kind of bigoted remark one would expect from the gaybashers.