# Godfather-I don't understand Sollazo's plan. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 2, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731 "2015-01-02T00:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/1 "2015-01-02T00:28:10Z")
Even if Don Corleone died, what did he think would happen? Sonny would just say, “oh well.” I guess I should say, “I think it was a stupid plan”. I know he counted on Tom to reign Sonny in, and Tom even tells Sonny to make peace if Pops dies. But how can Sollazo expect to live longer than five more years even if Don Corleone dies and Sonny makes peace? From Sollazo’s POV it seems dumb. Hell, down the line the other families could knock him off just as a favor to the Corleones or use his location as a bargaining chip. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/2 "2015-01-02T00:33:57Z")
I don’t know, but it’s “Sollozzo”. ETA: Sorry, apparently just in a hopelessly pedantic mood. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/3 "2015-01-02T02:03:02Z")
To state something you are possibly assuming is clear: He saw that Sonny was interested in the narcotics deal at the meeting, and therefore wants to kill don Corleone so that he can deal with Sonny instead. Tom Hagen evaluates that he can talk sense into Sonny, but not to Luca Brasi. We are supposed to believe this assesment was correct. Solozzo takes care of Luca. If it turns out to not work out with Sonny at all, they could kill Sonny too and go to the next son. Also note that that he was backed by the powerful Barzinis, something which only becomes clear later. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/4 "2015-01-02T02:09:54Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > To state something you are possibly assuming is clear: He saw that Sonny was interested in the narcotics deal at the meeting, and therefore wants to kill don Corleone so that he can deal with Sonny instead. > > Tom Hagen evaluates that he can talk sense into Sonny, but not to Luca Brasi. We are supposed to believe this assesment was correct. Solozzo takes care of Luca. If it turns out to not work out with Sonny at all, they could kill Sonny too and go to the next son. > > Also note that that he was backed by the powerful Barzinis, something which only becomes clear later. Plus, remember what’s clear already: he’s backed by the police captain. What, you’re just going to pull out a gun and shoot _both_ of them? That’s just crazy talk. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/5 "2015-01-02T02:13:22Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > What, you’re just going to pull out a gun and shoot _both_ of them? That’s just crazy talk. Well. no. You’d get blood all over your nice Ivy League suit. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/6 "2015-01-02T02:22:48Z")
Whadya think this is? The Army, where ya shoot 'em a mile away? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/7 "2015-01-02T02:37:01Z")
It may not have been entirely Sollozzo’s plan. He was being backed by the Barzinis and they may have pushed him into taking more risks than he wanted. The Barzinis may have figured that if Sollozzo’s plan worked, it would both provide them with a new source of income and reduce the Corleones’ power - a win/win for the Barzinis. And if it didn’t work, Sollozzo and the Tattaglias would be the fall guys. So the Barzinis probably told Sollozzo he didn’t have a choice - he had to attack the Corleones or they would kill him for his failure to make the deal work. Sollozzo was just playing out the hand he was dealt and hoping it would work out. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/8 "2015-01-02T02:40:05Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > To state something you are possibly assuming is clear: He saw that Sonny was interested in the narcotics deal at the meeting, and therefore wants to kill don Corleone so that he can deal with Sonny instead. A lot of people miss this. When Sollozzo says the Tataglia’s will guarantee their money and Sonny suddenly speaks out of turn, he’s admonished by the Don (Brando). Even though it seems subtle Vito was seriously pissed at Sonny for doing that. You can see Clamenza’a reaction because he knows this too. And the Don was right. That little slip by Sonny set the whole attempted murder of Vito into motion. Vito dies, Sonny is now in charge, so the deal eventually goes thru. The other families were not on Sonny’s side, they wanted the Sollozzo deal to go thru, the Corleones were the only stumbling block. And as an aside, the scene where Michael has the long soliloquy announcing that they have to get rid of Sollozzo and he will do it, this is the core of the whole saga. It’s essentially where Michael ‘gives in to the dark side…’ and there’s no going back for him. And yeah, it was all just business (except to Luca, which is why he had to be preemptively eliminated)… ---
**Author:** ![minlokwat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minlokwat/32/2844_2.png) [@minlokwat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minlokwat)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/9 "2015-01-02T03:30:43Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > From Sollazo’s POV it seems dumb. Well remember kid, he ain’t that clever. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/10 "2015-01-02T16:22:55Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > Arleones were the only stumbling block. > > And as an aside, the scene where Michael has the long soliloquy announcing that they have to get rid of Sollozzo and he will do it, this is the core of the whole saga. It’s essentially where Michael ‘gives in to the dark side…’ and there’s no going back for him. All true… but it’s worth noting that, while Sonny scoffs at the idea of Mike pulling off an assassination in the movie, he has the OPPOSITE reaction in Mario Puzo’s book. In the book, when Mike offers to kill Sollozzo, Sonny is delighted. He says something like, “I’ve been waiting for this side of you to come out again. You were always the toughest one in the family. You were always the bravest one. You were always the only one with the balls to stand up to Pop. Nice to see THAT Mike coming back to the fore.” ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/11 "2015-01-02T16:40:39Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > All true… but it’s worth noting that, while Sonny scoffs at the idea of Mike pulling off an assassination in the movie, he has the OPPOSITE reaction in Mario Puzo’s book. > > In the book, when Mike offers to kill Sollozzo, Sonny is delighted. He says something like, “I’ve been waiting for this side of you to come out again. You were always the toughest one in the family. You were always the bravest one. You were always the only one with the balls to stand up to Pop. Nice to see THAT Mike coming back to the fore.” I like in the movie how Tom is the only one who doesn’t think its funny. Back to Sollozzo, I suppose it’s possible he also thought Sonny might be happy to be the head of the family. Perhaps the other four families have a history of patricide. ---
**Author:** ![minlokwat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minlokwat/32/2844_2.png) [@minlokwat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minlokwat)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/12 "2015-01-02T16:51:17Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > All true… but it’s worth noting that, while Sonny scoffs at the idea of Mike pulling off an assassination in the movie, he has the OPPOSITE reaction in Mario Puzo’s book. > > In the book, when Mike offers to kill Sollozzo, Sonny is delighted. He says something like, “I’ve been waiting for this side of you to come out again. You were always the toughest one in the family. You were always the bravest one. You were always the only one with the balls to stand up to Pop. Nice to see THAT Mike coming back to the fore.” I seem to recall another minor yet significant difference with that scene. If memory serves correctly, in the book after Michael proposes his plan, Sonny is the first to laugh with the others following his lead. In the movie, Sonny seems unsure as to how to react, the Don’s deputies begin laughing and then Sonny joins in. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/13 "2015-01-02T17:06:53Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > I don’t know, but it’s “Sollozzo”. > > ETA: Sorry, apparently just in a hopelessly pedantic mood. It’s also “rein in”, not “reign in”. And I think Sollozzo expected Mike to be okay with being ‘allowed’ by the others to step into his father’s shoes. QtM, hopefully pedantic today. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/14 "2015-01-02T17:11:10Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > All true… but it’s worth noting that, while Sonny scoffs at the idea of Mike pulling off an assassination in the movie, he has the OPPOSITE reaction in Mario Puzo’s book. > > In the book, when Mike offers to kill Sollozzo, Sonny is delighted. He says something like, “I’ve been waiting for this side of you to come out again. You were always the toughest one in the family. You were always the bravest one. You were always the only one with the balls to stand up to Pop. Nice to see THAT Mike coming back to the fore.” I don’t think this is accurate. In the book, as in the movie, he first laughs along with everyone except Tom. Then when he realizes Michael is serious he changes around and says the thing you quoted. ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/15 "2015-01-02T17:28:56Z")
In the book, it’s gone into a little more detail that a great deal of the Corleone Family’s power is the _personal_ power that Vito has built up over the years with his “friendships” among politicians, judges, etc. In fact, Sonny explains Sollozzo’s thought process like this: > [@](#): > > But during the meeting I shot off my mouth a little, I showed I wanted the deal. Which is absolutely the wrong thing to do; if there’s one thing the old man hammered into me it’s never to do a thing like that, to let other people know there’s a split of opinion in the Family. So Sollozzo figures he gets rid of the old man, I have to go in with him on the drugs. With the old man gone, the Family power is cut at least in half. I would be fighting for my life anyway to keep all the businesses the old man got together. Drugs are the coming thing, we should get into it. And his knocking off the old man is purely business, nothing personal. As a matter of business I would go in with him. Of course he would never let me get too close, he’d make sure I’d never get a clean shot at him, just in case. But he also knows that once I accepted the deal the other Families would never let me start a war a couple of years later just for revenge. > > The Godfather (pp. 94-95). Penguin Group US. Kindle Edition. However, Sonny also claims that he would not have gone along with the deal even if Vito had died, so it probably wasn’t that great of a plan. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/16 "2015-01-03T01:13:42Z")
Great thread. [Here is the scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUxj4Myv7nw)when Michael says he will kill Salazzo. ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_from\_CB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/278dde/32.png) [@Alex\_from\_CB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_from_CB)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/17 "2015-01-03T01:40:11Z")
Notice in that scene at first Sonny and Tom pay no mind to Michael. Treat him like a potted plant. But when he starts talking all the other guys in the room look at Michael in silence and listen intently. I always loved the camera work there, too. Camera slowly moves toward the seated Michael as he explains. As someone else pointed out it’s the point which Michael becomes an insider. But also, it’s the point at which all the other top _C. Family_ guys learn that this Michael guy is a leader and one to be respected. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/18 "2015-01-03T01:47:27Z")
It was clearly a big mistake to shoot the Don. Marlon Brando was about to die anyway real soon. So he just should have waited a couple of year for Brando to die and then he could have been blame free in the death. ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/19 "2015-01-03T02:03:25Z")
Another thing I like about that scene where Michael outlines his plan: I don’t know whether it was intentional on the part of the filmmakers or not, but because of Michael’s recent jaw injury, he has a slight speech impediment that makes him sound somewhat like his father. A very nice foreshadowing that Michael does, indeed, have his father’s ruthlessness in him, and will take his place. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731/20 "2015-01-03T02:45:18Z")
> [@Hermione](#): > > I don’t know whether it was intentional on the part of the filmmakers or not, but because of Michael’s recent jaw injury, he has a slight speech impediment that makes him sound somewhat like his father. This is an interesting twist I’d never realized before. As I recall, Brando decided to pad his cheeks for his screen test… Coppola wanted Brando, but the studio didn’t think he was trustworthy, so Brand made himself indistinguishable for his scren test. I wonder how it went down in direction, did Coppola tell Pachino: “Al, can you make it sound like you’re really Marlon’s son?” And Pachino clenches his teen goes, “Yeah. Icandothat.” Makes me wonder if there was ever any “Making of _The Godfather_” footage made. Like there was for _Apocalypse Now_. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-i-dont-understand-sollazos-plan/708731.md?page=2)