# Godfather Part II final scenes - SPOLIERS **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 20, 2019, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737 "2019-11-20T22:46:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/1 "2019-11-20T22:46:35Z")
I never quite bought the scene at the end when Michael had Fredo killed, there was no reason for it and I thought it was overly manipulative, especially after the prior scene with Fredo hugging Michael at the funeral. And to do it on a boat right there on the property and dump the body in the water. After telling his son that plans had changed and he couldn’t go fishing with Fredo. Connie is going to know Michael killed him, she isn’t dumb enough to believe that Fredo just happened to disappear. Very dramatic scene of course with Fredo saying Hail Mary’s and then getting shot. But maybe Fredo could have eventually been a threat to Michael, after the initial shock of getting kicked out and being hurt, he could have turned against Michael. He did know a lot of people in Vegas. He could have gotten a job at a casino and the people there might have wanted Michael dead. Any maybe Michael wanted Connie to know, without ever directly telling her, in case she got any ideas to cross him. Hell, as I’m typing I think I answered my own questions. In Godfather Part 3, didn’t this come up? Connie said something about how she always suspected him. How did Michael respond? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/2 "2019-11-20T23:08:28Z")
Earlier in the film, Michael said that he would not kill Fredo as long as their mother was alive, but that he didn’t want to see him any longer. So it’s no surprise that Fredo was killed right after their mother’s funeral. And one unforgivable sin in their mindset has always been that you don’t act against the family. Fredo’s involvement in the attempted hit on Michael’s life pegs him as a traitor. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/3 "2019-11-20T23:09:01Z")
There was “no reason for it?” If there’s one thing that’s consistent in the movies and book, you never give a betrayer a second chance. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/4 "2019-11-20T23:20:41Z")
Not killing Fredo would have been perceived as a sign of weakness by everyone in the Family, and by any outsiders contemplating a move against the Corleones. No one expected Fredo to live after what he’d done, except for Connie, who was kidding herself (and not for the first time). Also, the middle of Lake Tahoe isn’t “right there on the property.” ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/5 "2019-11-20T23:41:11Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Not killing Fredo would have been perceived as a sign of weakness by everyone in the Family, and by any outsiders contemplating a move against the Corleones. No one expected Fredo to live after what he’d done, except for Connie, who was kidding herself (and not for the first time). Also, the middle of Lake Tahoe isn’t “right there on the property.” well it wasn’t 50 yards from the shore, and there would have been a remote possibility of the body being found accidentally. In real life I think the Mafia would have disposed of the body elsewhere. But then we don’t get the dramatic final scene. As far as sending a message, no one would know Fredo was dead except Michael and the guy who shot him. After a while people might wonder where he was. But again, if Fredo had been shot down in the street, we lose that final scene on the boat. Actually I now remember Coppola discussing this in the 25th anniversary edition of the novel. I read it last year. Puzo was against it, thinking that by that point Fredo was broken and no threat, then Coppola sold him on waiting until their mother was dead. > **[Francis Ford Coppola on the Iconic ‘Godfather’ Scenes Mario Puzo Pushed Back On](https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/francis-ford-coppola-conflict-mario-puzo-the-godfather-twists-1202049184/)** > > In a new essay celebrating the 50th anniversary of "The Godfather" novel, Coppola remembers debating Puzo over the film adaptation's plot. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/6 "2019-11-20T23:41:15Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > And to do it on a boat right there on the property and dump the body in the water. Al Neri isn’t shown dumping the body, and doesn’t appear to have enough chains or other heavy stuff to assure a body would stay submerged. He probably disposed of the body some other way. > [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Also, the middle of Lake Tahoe isn’t “right there on the property.” They were close enough to the house that the shot could be heard clearly (which implies that Connie or anyone else who would be suspicious must have left by then). Although sound carries over water, they couldn’t have been too far away. I’m surprised that Neri wouldn’t have used a silencer, but maybe they were far enough away from neighbors not to worry. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/7 "2019-11-20T23:46:49Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Not killing Fredo would have been perceived as a sign of weakness by everyone in the Family, and by any outsiders contemplating a move against the Corleones. No one expected Fredo to live after what he’d done, except for Connie, who was kidding herself (and not for the first time). Also, the middle of Lake Tahoe isn’t “right there on the property.” well it wasn’t 50 yards from the shore, and there would have been a remote possibility of the body being found accidentally. In real life I think the Mafia would have disposed of the body elsewhere. But then we don’t get the dramatic final scene. As far as sending a message, no one would know Fredo was dead except Michael and the guy who shot him. After a while people might wonder where he was. But again, if Fredo had been shot down in the street, we lose that final scene on the boat. Actually I now remember Coppola discussing this in the 25th anniversary edition of the novel. I read it last year. Puzo was against it, thinking that by that point Fredo was broken and no threat, then Coppola sold him on waiting until their mother was dead. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/8 "2019-11-20T23:48:00Z")
ETA link to that discussion - [Francis Ford Coppola, Mario Puzo Disagreed on Iconic Godfather Scenes | IndieWire](https://www.indiewire.com/2019/03/francis-ford-coppola-conflict-mario-puzo-the-godfather-twists-1202049184/) ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/9 "2019-11-20T23:50:19Z")
Fredo insisted he didn’t know if was going to be a hit on Michael. I believe that, but what the hell did he think was going to happen with the curtains being left open? That it was a signal that Michael was available to talk? Whatever, Fredo was stupid. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/10 "2019-11-21T00:01:59Z")
The scene right after Michael has Fredo killed, when Michael is remembering that Fredo was the only one who congratulated Michael when he enlisted after Pearl Harbor breaks my heart every time. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/11 "2019-11-21T00:06:21Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Al Neri isn’t shown dumping the body, and doesn’t appear to have enough chains or other heavy stuff to assure a body would stay submerged. He probably disposed of the body some other way. > > They were close enough to the house that the shot could be heard clearly (which implies that Connie or anyone else who would be suspicious must have left by then). Although sound carries over water, they couldn’t have been too far away. I’m surprised that Neri wouldn’t have used a silencer, but maybe they were far enough away from neighbors not to worry. But then there would have been no reason to take him out on the boat. I think it’s just a little, I wouldn’t exactly call it dramatic license, just little details that aren’t very important. But since I’ve seen the movie at least 20 times, I wonder about them. Anyway, just got a new Blu-ray player, I’m sure I can find a used copy cheap. I can watch again with no lingering questions ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/12 "2019-11-21T00:18:14Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > The scene right after Michael has Fredo killed, when Michael is remembering that Fredo was the only one who congratulated Michael when he enlisted after Pearl Harbor breaks my heart every time. Michael pretending to forgive someone and then killing them was certainly not new. And by not only allowing Fredo to come to the funeral, but allowing him to give him that big hug, which would have led Connie to believe Fredo was forgiven (and also maybe to give deniability if he was ever suspected by the cops of killing Fredo), shows just how cold-blooded and calculating he had beome. To his regret, as we see in the flashback. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/13 "2019-11-21T04:53:03Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > I never quite bought the scene at the end when Michael had Fredo killed, there was no reason for it and I thought it was overly manipulative, especially after the prior scene with Fredo hugging Michael at the funeral. You think the funeral scene makes it especially manipulative? Here’s a quick breakdown of that scene. Fredo looks up to Michael like a little puppy dog and Michael returns the look with exactly zero emotion. Fredo hugs Michael with all his might while Michael impassively stares past him to Al Neri. How exactly does that scene set up his death as manipulative? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/14 "2019-11-21T05:18:29Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > But then there would have been no reason to take him out on the boat. Maybe it was to lull Fredo’s suspicions, at least up to the point where Michael’s son was called away. Given his recital of the rosary, at the end Fredo evidently knew what was coming and accepted it. Or maybe it was a form of mercy. Fredo had to go, but Michael wanted to allow him to die in pleasant surroundings. ---
**Author:** ![AppallingGael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9bd4f/32.png) [@AppallingGael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AppallingGael)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/15 "2019-11-21T05:26:53Z")
It certainly made me want back the tears I shed after Michael and Fredo’s big emotional embrace. It cost Michael any sympathy from me. Of course the movie was about to end anyway, but it meant I wouldn’t have to see any potential Part 3. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/16 "2019-11-21T05:36:35Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Maybe it was to lull Fredo’s suspicions, at least up to the point where Michael’s son was called away. Given his recital of the rosary, at the end Fredo evidently knew what was coming and accepted it. But they just set up that he says Hail Marys to catch fish. So, while it’s a beautiful literary device (or whatever), it’s not a strong indicator that he knew what was coming. Ore like deepening the irony, as the audience knows what’s coming and he doesn’t, but he is ironically praying as he might if he did know. And it further establishes Michael’s descent (deeper) into villainy, having his own brother killed mid-prayer. It’s not such fratricide, it’s sacrilege. > [@](#): > > Or maybe it was a form of mercy. Fredo had to go, but Michael wanted to allow him to die in pleasant surroundings. I suspect it was just a convenient way of ensuring there wouldn’t be a mess to clean up, but without suspiciously asking Fredo to go for a walk in the woods (or to get in the car with one of Michael’s hit men in the back seat). ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/17 "2019-11-21T05:50:21Z")
the funny and sad thing also is didn’t the don say (possibly indirectly)when fredo went to vegas in the first place was never to give Fredo anything “important” to do? So mikes basically going along with what the don says… tries to get mike killed… then on ney years eve in Cuba he slips and says the Lansky stand-ins aide told him about the “show” which told mike all he needed to know and gives fredo the “kiss” so fredo knew he was on borrowed time So when mike and Fredo have it out fredo starts bitching about mike following what the don said years before …(although fredo never knew that) I mean did he forget about carlo? ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/18 "2019-11-21T05:56:13Z")
missed the edit: the funny and sad thing also is didn’t the don say (possibly indirectly)when fredo went to vegas in the first place was never to give Fredo anything “important” to do? said after he made the peace and Hagen asked the don should he have freddy come home ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/19 "2019-11-21T06:05:22Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > missed the edit: > > the funny and sad thing also is didn’t the don say (possibly indirectly)when fredo went to vegas in the first place was never to give Fredo anything “important” to do? said after he made the peace and Hagen asked the don should he have freddy come home Maybe we’re remembering different scenes but in the one I recall the Don told Tom to give Carlo a job but nothing important. I believe Fredo was sent to Las Vegas to protect him. Fredo was active in the family and would be seen as a legitimate target, just like Sonny had been. And Fredo wasn’t smart so it would have been relatively easy for the other families to figure out a way to set him up to be killed. So the Corleone family got him out of New York City and made a deal with the Vegas mob. The Vegas mob let it be known that Fredo was now under their protection and they would retaliate if he was killed in Las Vegas. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737/20 "2019-11-21T06:08:53Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > missed the edit: > > the funny and sad thing also is didn’t the don say (possibly indirectly)when fredo went to vegas in the first place was never to give Fredo anything “important” to do? said after he made the peace and Hagen asked the don should he have freddy come home I thought that was referring to Connie’s husband. And not about going to Vegas, but about his role in the family in general. They didn’t trust him enough to make him integral to the family business. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godfather-part-ii-final-scenes-spoliers/843737.md?page=2)