# Gods and Generals and Political Correctness **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 3, 2003, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-and-generals-and-political-correctness/158797 "2003-03-03T18:29:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gris\_gris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/439d5e/32.png) [@gris\_gris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gris_gris)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-and-generals-and-political-correctness/158797/41 "2003-03-05T21:53:32Z")
If Lee and the other southern generals are traiters, then what about Washington and Jefferson and those dudes. They were traitors to the crown of England the only difference is that Washington won his war of independence, Lee didn’t. So I guess what im saying is yes Lee was a traitor, but so was washington!If america had failed to gain independence from England Then we as citizens of the UK. would be spitting on washingtons grave. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-and-generals-and-political-correctness/158797/42 "2003-03-05T22:27:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > \*\* > I think Davis was making a political point with his order, issuing it in response to Butler’s outrageous (or perceived as such) conduct in New Orleans. \*\* Well, I don’t know. One of Butler’s actions was not only to place the Native Guard under US authority, but to reinforce it with “contraband” slaves. Blacks with guns was shocking enough for the confederates (which is a large part of why the Native Guard never saw action as Confederates, and Louisiana was “liberal” on that matter"), but the idea of slaves with guns was totally unacceptable. The Confederate fear of slave uprisings during the war was overwhelming. I don’t see any circumstance where the Confederates would grant an ex-slave unit legitimacy by treating them as POWs. I’m still researching whether or not the order was carried out. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-and-generals-and-political-correctness/158797/43 "2003-03-05T22:54:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > \*\*One of Butler’s actions was not only to place the Native Guard under US authority, but to reinforce it with “contraband” slaves. Blacks with guns was shocking enough for the confederates but the idea of slaves with guns was totally unacceptable. The Confederate fear of slave uprisings during the war was overwhelming. I don’t see any circumstance where the Confederates would grant an ex-slave unit legitimacy by treating them as POWs. \*\* And why should we give a good goddamn why some racists thought that another _human being_ should not be carrying guns? These “slaves” were not “slaves”- they were freed _humans_ whose only “crime” was being held as property by an outmoded, backward, immoral & racist system. I am GLAD those “contraband slaves” got a chance to bear arms against their oppressors- that is what the USA is all about. Freedom! Lee, Davis, and others should all have been imprisoned or shot for Treason, and for “armed insurrection”. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-and-generals-and-political-correctness/158797/44 "2003-03-05T23:50:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrDeth \* > \*\*I am GLAD those “contraband slaves” got a chance to bear arms against their oppressors- that is what the USA is all about. Freedom! \*\* Well, I agree with you. (Remember, I’m the Unionist here). 🙂 We have to care about what Davis thought, though, in this case, because we’re discussing whether the “shoot black soldiers” part of the order was issued more as a reaction to Butler’s “women order” or out of sincerity. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-and-generals-and-political-correctness/158797/45 "2003-03-06T03:02:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gris gris \* > **If Lee and the other southern generals are traiters, then what about Washington and Jefferson and those dudes.** I don’t think that anyone disputes that the American revolutionaries were rebels against an established government. ---
**Author:** ![gris\_gris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/439d5e/32.png) [@gris\_gris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gris_gris)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-and-generals-and-political-correctness/158797/46 "2003-03-06T03:25:25Z")
rebels=traitors ---
**Author:** ![Stitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@Stitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stitch)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-and-generals-and-political-correctness/158797/47 "2003-03-06T07:33:26Z")
\>So I guess what im saying is yes Lee was a traitor, but so was washington!If america had failed to gain independence from England Then we as citizens of the UK. would be spitting on washingtons grave.\< Therefore anyone who flies the star-spangled banned should be ashamed. Riiiiiiight. The Confederates were fighting for independance just like the pariots of the American revolution. Every last one of them were traitors…to the English crown. Only 8% of Southerners owned slaves. People won’t fight to protect the wealthy, but they will defend their homes. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-and-generals-and-political-correctness/158797/48 "2003-03-06T16:41:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Only 8% of Southerners owned slaves. People won’t fight to protect the wealthy, but they will defend their homes. Please tell me you’re not trying to argue that the Civil War wasn’t about slavery. While it’s true that individual Confederate soldiers may have fought (by their lights) to defend their homes, you cannot escape the fact that the grand central issue of the war was slavery. If there had been no slavery, there would have been no Civil War. The Southern states seceded to protect their “right” to own slaves. It is not coincidental that counties where slaves were few (particularly in the mountainous regions of the South) tended to oppose secession. Sadly, the 92% of Confederate soldiers who did not own slaves were exploited to protect the interests of the wealthy Southerners who were slaveholders. “Defend your homes from the Yankee invaders,” they were told; and so they did, at dreadful cost. Rich man’s war, poor man’s fight, as the saying goes. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-and-generals-and-political-correctness/158797/49 "2003-03-06T16:48:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > \*\*It is not coincidental that counties where slaves were few (particularly in the mountainous regions of the South) tended to oppose secession. \*\* If you haven’t read it, and ever get the chance, I’d recommend the book “Reluctant Confederates” by Daniel W. Crofts. It’s a pretty good look at Unionism in the Upper South in 1861. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-and-generals-and-political-correctness/158797.md?page=2)