# God's math **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 13, 2014, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992 "2014-07-13T13:47:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Treat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Treat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/81 "2014-07-13T19:00:50Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Astronomy suggests the universe is far larger and far older than the bible-writers could imagine, actually. Yeah? Have you read the Bible or have you much knowledge in it. Even if you have read it the knowledge isn’t there or you would have at least be somewhat familiar with ‘new earth’ and ‘old earth’ beliefs. Your the typical commenter that knows minimal about the subject only what he has heard on Tv. I’m an old earth believer myself, thank you:smack: ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/82 "2014-07-13T19:02:42Z")
> [@Treat](#): > > Finally it says no man knows the day nor hour, but doesn’t say no man will know the year nor season. You’re going to get nit-picky with _God_? That takes balls. Treat: “Look, I found a loophole.” God: :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Treat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Treat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/83 "2014-07-13T19:06:41Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > You understand that the equation is correct, right? > > If you understand that the equation is correct, why would you think its being true has any less significance than the truth of any other equation? No I didn’t bother ‘crunch’ the numbers. However all you have are random numbers, perhaps you can’t see how my equations carefully follow a story, perhaps you could care less about the story that my equations stem from. OK see you later ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/84 "2014-07-13T19:10:33Z")
> [@Treat](#): > > No I didn’t bother ‘crunch’ the numbers. However all you have are random numbers, perhaps you can’t see how my equations carefully follow a story, perhaps you could care less about the story that my equations stem from. OK see you later But the numbers were not random. They were taken directly from the name you chose yourself. Try as you might, you cannot hide your true nature. ---
**Author:** ![Treat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Treat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/85 "2014-07-13T19:12:31Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > You’re going to get nit-picky with _God_? That takes balls. > > Treat: “Look, I found a loophole.” > God: :smack: Nit picky? Oh the ignorance is strong and working in you. Do ye not know that Christ gave us the season?:smack: Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that _ **summer** _ is nigh: Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Mar 13:18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the \*\*winter. \*\* Mar 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. ---
**Author:** ![Treat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Treat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/86 "2014-07-13T19:15:11Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > You understand that the equation is correct, right? > > If you understand that the equation is correct, why would you think its being true has any less significance than the truth of any other equation? No story from the Bible with it ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/87 "2014-07-13T19:16:41Z")
> [@Treat](#): > > Yeah? Have you read the Bible or have you much knowledge in it. Even if you have read it the knowledge isn’t there or you would have at least be somewhat familiar with ‘new earth’ and ‘old earth’ beliefs. Your the typical commenter that knows minimal about the subject only what he has heard on Tv. I’m an old earth believer myself, thank you:smack: So how old do you think the Earth is, and is it as old as the sun? Genesis 1 suggests it is older. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/88 "2014-07-13T19:20:24Z")
> [@Treat](#): > > Nit picky? Oh the ignorance is strong and working in you. > > Do ye not know that Christ gave us the season?:smack: Because the New Testament references the seasons, Christ must have _invented_ the seasons? Since we know seasons are the result of axial tilt, does this mean Christ tilted the world? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/89 "2014-07-13T19:21:32Z")
> [@Treat](#): > > Nit picky? Oh the ignorance is strong and working in you. > > Do ye not know that Christ gave us the season?:smack: > > Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that _ **summer** _ is nigh: > Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. > > Mar 13:18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the \*\*winter. \*\* > Mar 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. Mark 13:32 Whichever translation you go by, it clearly says only God knows. And no one else is to know. Why, then, would He leave clues? ---
**Author:** ![Treat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Treat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/90 "2014-07-13T19:25:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So how old do you think the Earth is, and is it as old as the sun? Genesis 1 suggests it is older. Earth is older than the sun, yes. The Bible does not specify how old though. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/91 "2014-07-13T19:27:33Z")
> [@Treat](#): > > The foul smell of the desperate offends my nostrils. Firstly you are dishonestly misrepresenting my stance of the countdown timer, I merely stated it was a possibility that I can’t, by right, rule out. I think Mark rules it out pretty conclusively. > [@](#): > > However the moon was to be used as sign and that is in fact astronomy. No, it most absolutely IS NOT astronomy. > [@](#): > > BTW I don’t mix up the believers with the non-believers, the non-believers sloppily tip their hat as to which side of the fence they are on with their discord for God, not my math, thank you. Sure, a few of the atheists in this thread have expressed contempt for both your religion and your math. My point is, the vast majority of observant Christians would also dismiss your math. Because it’s _extraordinarily bad._ > [@](#): > > Finally it says no man knows the day nor hour, but doesn’t say no man will know the year nor season. What was that you were saying about desperation? ---
**Author:** ![Treat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Treat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/92 "2014-07-13T19:28:03Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Mark 13:32 > Whichever translation you go by, it clearly says only God knows. And no one else is to know. Why, then, would He leave clues? KJV 1611 maybe you’ve heard of it, if not look into it. He simply said no man knows the day nor hour, you look way too far into it. He left the clues for those He loves and has a job for them to do in the last days. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/93 "2014-07-13T19:36:12Z")
> [@Treat](#): > > KJV 1611 maybe you’ve heard of it, if not look into it. He simply said no man knows the day nor hour, you look way too far into it. He left the clues for those He loves and has a job for them to do in the last days. [KJV 1611](http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611-Bible/book.php?book=Mark&chapter=13&verse=32) > [@](#): > > But of that day and that houre knoweth no man, no not the Angels which are in heauen, neither the Son, but the Father. By narrowing it down to the day and hour, that pretty much precludes knowing the year or season. And don’t imply that I lack knowledge. You’re the one attempting to justify finding secrets you weren’t meant to know. Someone else did that. Screwed it it up for the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/94 "2014-07-13T19:39:40Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > So, there’s an _ **ENTIRE** _ book in The Bible called Numbers, and it’s full of numbers. I’ll spare the reader some grief: > Reuban = 46,500, Simeon = 59,300, Gad = 45,600 > Judah = 74,600, Issachar = 54,400, Zebulun = 57,400 > Ephraim = 40,500, Manasseh = 32,200 ,Benjamin = 35,400 > Dan = 62,700, Asher = 41,500, Naphtali = 53,400 > > … numbers … Your comments please, **Treat** ---
**Author:** ![Treat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Treat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/95 "2014-07-13T19:41:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I think Mark rules it out pretty conclusively. > > No, it most absolutely IS NOT astronomy. > > Sure, a few of the atheists in this thread have expressed contempt for both your religion and your math. My point is, the vast majority of observant Christians would also dismiss your math. Because it’s _extraordinarily bad._ > > What was that you were saying about desperation? What a bunch mindless dribble 1If you believe Mark rules GREaT!! You want a medal? I cant believe your still goin on about that 2 Look up the definition of astronomy- day one stufff.i cant believe this is debatable, waste of time here My word all it means that you observe a planetary body(When the moon turns blood red look the other way):smack: 3You just like making stuff up or what? like talking to a box of rocks here, show me a Christian that disproved of the math and I put him in his place like I did you several times now or is this another one of your imaginary scenarios? How many times do I have to say it before it gets through your thick skull that if a believer disagrees then thats fine with me, stop wasting my time and leave me alone with silly nonsense:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Treat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Treat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/96 "2014-07-13T19:49:50Z")
[quote=“running\_coach, post:93, topic:692992”] [KJV 1611](http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611-Bible/book.php?book=Mark&chapter=13&verse=32) > [@](#): > > By narrowing it down to the day and hour, that pretty much precludes knowing the year or season. I mean, whatever, if you wanna bundle it all together in a big mess then go ahead. There are no ‘clues’ > [@](#): > > And don’t imply that I lack knowledge. You implied yourself to have no Biblical knowledge by not recognizing the scripture I posted was in old English and therefore in all probability it was the KJV > [@](#): > > You’re the one attempting to justify finding secrets you weren’t meant to know. > Someone else did that. Screwed it it up for the rest of us. What did I just read? I have no clue as to what your implying here:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/97 "2014-07-13T19:51:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > What would God need with a countdown timer? He needs it for the self destruct system on his starship, naturally. ---
**Author:** ![Treat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Treat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/98 "2014-07-13T19:51:07Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Your comments please, **Treat** Be more specific as to what aspect of your post you want me to comment on. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/99 "2014-07-13T19:51:22Z")
I hesitate to say this, but… it is indeed possible to multiply seconds by years. I don’t know why you’d do this, especially without converting them both to the same units first, but it’s possible. You definitely won’t get a length out of it, though. More directly to the OP, though, I have to ask **Treat** : Why is your faith so weak? And why do you put your weak faith in such a pitiful being as the one you think is God? You’re asking us to believe that God doesn’t know any math beyond second-grade arithmetic. The Creator of the Universe is so much greater than that, but your lack of faith is preventing you from seeing His full glory. If you believe that God communicates with us through mathematics, then you should be seeking a far greater understanding of mathematics than what you have right now. Try learning tensor calculus, and complex analysis, and Hilbert space algebra, and calculus of variations. If you learn all of that, you’ll still be far, far short of understanding the full mind of God… but you’ll at least be able to understand a few of the messages He’s sent us. For instance, you’ll be able to understand God’s message to us telling us that the Universe is over 13 billion years old, the Sun is 5 billion, and the Earth is 4.5 billion. He told us that, and the message is quite clear and easy to read, if you know the math. If you claim that the actual age of the Universe or of the Earth is something else, then you are calling God a liar. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/100 "2014-07-13T19:55:56Z")
> [@Treat](#): > > What did I just read? I have no clue as to what your implying here:smack: What’s wrong, KJV 1611 doesn’t have Adam and Eve? So much for your knowledge of scripture. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992.md?page=6)