# God's math **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 13, 2014, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992 "2014-07-13T13:47:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Treat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Treat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/121 "2014-07-13T20:52:05Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Are you not familiar with this part of The Bible? Very familiar with Numbers as I have read it numerous times. I don’t have the numbers of each tribe memorized. So firstly I would have to double check your numbers to make sure they were right. Secondly I have no new insight that is not already out there. Believe it or not my life doesn’t constantly revolve around studying numbers from the Bible. My research focused primarily around the story of Christ and His work. You seem to have some insight concerning these numbers so please share or perhaps consider starting a new thread about them. ---
**Author:** ![Treat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Treat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/122 "2014-07-13T20:53:29Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Aaaaaand there it is, folks! The grand slam! End of thread. Not so fast sporty, you need to do a little more research ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/123 "2014-07-13T21:06:36Z")
> [@Treat](#): > > [How old is the Earth's core? Maybe older than you thought](http://phys.org/news/2011-11-earth-core-older-thought.html) > > There is not a whole lot of information expect in the science community circles because it fairly new, but the scientists found the earth to be 1.2 billion years older than previously thought which makes it older than the sun. I suppose the heliophysicists will have to change their numbers again next year so it won’t be a debatable topic again. The Earth’s solid inner core was/is thought to be significantly younger than the Earth itself, so even if the inner core (per your cite) was 1.2 billion years older than previously thought, it’s still younger than the sun. The sun is older than the earth, though not by much. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/124 "2014-07-13T21:27:47Z")
> [@Treat](#): > > [How old is the Earth's core? Maybe older than you thought](http://phys.org/news/2011-11-earth-core-older-thought.html) > > There is not a whole lot of information expect in the science community circles because it fairly new, but the scientists found the earth to be 1.2 billion years older than previously thought which makes it older than the sun. I suppose the heliophysicists will have to change their numbers again next year so it won’t be a debatable topic again. That article is about the age of Earth’s _core_. Unless you want to argue that God made Earth’s core and then waited a while to finish its surface, you’ve got nothing. Besides, if we’re talking _cores_ (and the article describes only one current hypothesis, yet to be supported or generally accepted), the sun’s core can easily be still older, and the theories behind the formation of the sun _and_ Earth get along just fine without God or Jesus. I’m really wasting my time here, aren’t I? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/125 "2014-07-13T21:28:18Z")
> [@Treat](#): > > You answer me this one question and then I will answer you. What would you like to talk about? Then go start a thread about that because it’s a mystery to me as to why you are not doing that instead of wasting your time here. I would like to know, in one sentence, what you intend for the purpose of this thread to be about. If there is something else _I_ wish to talk about, I will go start a new thread elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Treat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Treat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/126 "2014-07-13T21:30:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The Earth’s solid inner core was/is thought to be significantly younger than the Earth itself, so even if the inner core (per your cite) was 1.2 billion years older than previously thought, it’s still younger than the sun. > > The sun is older than the earth, though not by much. Around 200 million years according to the official version and that’s subject to change. At this point in the game it would foolish to hang your hat on these estimates. ---
**Author:** ![Treat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Treat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/127 "2014-07-13T21:32:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I would like to know, in one sentence, what you intend for the purpose of this thread to be about. If there is something else _I_ wish to talk about, I will go start a new thread elsewhere. OK have fun with that thread, see you later ---
**Author:** ![Itself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d07c76/32.png) [@Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/128 "2014-07-13T21:33:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I can’t speak for Czarcasm, but I think I might enjoy a discussion of how pseudoscience, biblically-inspired or otherwise, is a drag on human development. Sure, I’ll bite. **Treat** himself is irrelevant; it’s not like he turned a professorship in MIT’s physics department in favor of “research focused primarily around the story of Christ and His work.” Still, allowing nonsense like this particular strain of pseudoscience to fester is a drain on human development. Science is, unfortunately, not something that scientists can do off in an ivory tower completed separated from the general public. Even in theoretical fields, there’s still a need for funding; even theoretical math, which needs no fancy lab equipment whatsoever, is only done at universities (or possibly the NSA and an extremely limited set of industry companies, like Microsoft Research), which require substantial amounts of funding. That funding generally comes from the government, and politicians respond to the public. In more experimental sciences, you also need more people than just the few PIs at the top. You also need lab techs, people to repair the equipment when it breaks, people to run statistical analyses, people to write code to support experiments, and so on. If there isn’t a scientifically literate public available from which to hire such people, you’re going to have trouble running experiments. More locally, if that public isn’t available in one location, then the lab or facility is going to be located in another location. That means fewer science and technology jobs. It also has a snowball effect: Even if you don’t care about the results of, say, particle physics, having a strong particle physics presence in a location means that other scientists also will like that location, and they may produce results or technology you do care about. More directly, I wish we could just get over the sort of utter nonsnse in the OP and move on with science and learning. Over the 100 years or so, we’ve gone from not even knowing what atoms are composed of to having an amazingly successful Standard Model of fundamental interactions; from having to do any sort of computation by hand to having several computers in an ordinary household that can do anything from play games to download millions of books almost instantly; from never being able to fly to landing on the moon; and from having regular epidemics of polio to having a grand total of 385 cases worldwide in 2013. We’ve done that by understanding the world with rational, cogent, rigorous thought. Bullshit like magical numerology is an utter waste of time that produces nothing besides delaying further understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/129 "2014-07-13T21:34:16Z")
You’re awfully evasive for a guy so passionate, Treat. ---
**Author:** ![Treat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Treat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/130 "2014-07-13T21:35:57Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That article is about the age of Earth’s _core_. Unless you want to argue that God made Earth’s core and then waited a while to finish its surface, you’ve got nothing. > > Besides, if we’re talking _cores_ (and the article describes only one current hypothesis, yet to be supported or generally accepted), the sun’s core can easily be still older, and the theories behind the formation of the sun _and_ Earth get along just fine without God or Jesus. > > I’m really wasting my time here, aren’t I? Oh ok the core formed like a hot marsh mellow then the delicious golden outer crust formed billions of years later, yeah thats it. Waste of time? certainly, thanks for watching the video, see you later ---
**Author:** ![Treat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Treat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/131 "2014-07-13T21:38:56Z")
> [@Itself](#): > > Sure, I’ll bite. **Treat** himself is irrelevant; it’s not like he turned a professorship in MIT’s physics department in favor of “research focused primarily around the story of Christ and His work.” Still, allowing nonsense like this particular strain of pseudoscience to fester is a drain on human development. Science is, unfortunately, not something that scientists can do off in an ivory tower completed separated from the general public. Even in theoretical fields, there’s still a need for funding; even theoretical math, which needs no fancy lab equipment whatsoever, is only done at universities (or possibly the NSA and an extremely limited set of industry companies, like Microsoft Research), which require substantial amounts of funding. That funding generally comes from the government, and politicians respond to the public. > > In more experimental sciences, you also need more people than just the few PIs at the top. You also need lab techs, people to repair the equipment when it breaks, people to run statistical analyses, people to write code to support experiments, and so on. If there isn’t a scientifically literate public available from which to hire such people, you’re going to have trouble running experiments. More locally, if that public isn’t available in one location, then the lab or facility is going to be located in another location. That means fewer science and technology jobs. It also has a snowball effect: Even if you don’t care about the results of, say, particle physics, having a strong particle physics presence in a location means that other scientists also will like that location, and they may produce results or technology you do care about. > > More directly, I wish we could just get over the sort of utter nonsnse in the OP and move on with science and learning. Over the 100 years or so, we’ve gone from not even knowing what atoms are composed of to having an amazingly successful Standard Model of fundamental interactions; from having to do any sort of computation by hand to having several computers in an ordinary household that can do anything from play games to download millions of books almost instantly; from never being able to fly to landing on the moon; and from having regular epidemics of polio to having a grand total of 385 cases worldwide in 2013. We’ve done that by understanding the world with rational, cogent, rigorous thought. Bullshit like magical numerology is an utter waste of time that produces nothing besides delaying further understanding. All aboard for Fukushima:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Treat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Treat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/132 "2014-07-13T21:40:11Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You’re awfully evasive for a guy so passionate, Treat. Thanks Bryan, see you later ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/133 "2014-07-13T21:40:47Z")
> [@Itself](#): > > Sure, I’ll bite. **Treat** himself is irrelevant; it’s not like he turned a professorship in MIT’s physics department in favor of “research focused primarily around the story of Christ and His work.” Still, allowing nonsense like this particular strain of pseudoscience to fester is a drain on human development. Science is, unfortunately, not something that scientists can do off in an ivory tower completed separated from the general public. Even in theoretical fields, there’s still a need for funding; even theoretical math, which needs no fancy lab equipment whatsoever, is only done at universities (or possibly the NSA and an extremely limited set of industry companies, like Microsoft Research), which require substantial amounts of funding. That funding generally comes from the government, and politicians respond to the public. > > In more experimental sciences, you also need more people than just the few PIs at the top. You also need lab techs, people to repair the equipment when it breaks, people to run statistical analyses, people to write code to support experiments, and so on. If there isn’t a scientifically literate public available from which to hire such people, you’re going to have trouble running experiments. More locally, if that public isn’t available in one location, then the lab or facility is going to be located in another location. That means fewer science and technology jobs. It also has a snowball effect: Even if you don’t care about the results of, say, particle physics, having a strong particle physics presence in a location means that other scientists also will like that location, and they may produce results or technology you do care about. > > More directly, I wish we could just get over the sort of utter nonsnse in the OP and move on with science and learning. Over the 100 years or so, we’ve gone from not even knowing what atoms are composed of to having an amazingly successful Standard Model of fundamental interactions; from having to do any sort of computation by hand to having several computers in an ordinary household that can do anything from play games to download millions of books almost instantly; from never being able to fly to landing on the moon; and from having regular epidemics of polio to having a grand total of 385 cases worldwide in 2013. We’ve done that by understanding the world with rational, cogent, rigorous thought. Bullshit like magical numerology is an utter waste of time that produces nothing besides delaying further understanding. Well done, and if I may add an observation - because of the work of scientists building on each others’ work and engineers who put that work into practice, Treat has the _luxury_ of advancing his ideas on a worldwide computer network. If he stays limited to math as discussed in the bible, he’s stuck with very very basic arithmetic. Christ don’t do calculus. Fortunately for them, even people who see no value in science can still benefit from it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/134 "2014-07-13T21:41:26Z")
> [@Treat](#): > > Around 200 million years according to the official version and that’s subject to change. At this point in the game it would foolish to hang your hat on these estimates. It’s reasonable to base one’s current understanding on the best evidence of the day. Some stranger’s weird numerical interpretation of the Bible is not even close to the best evidence of the day. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/135 "2014-07-13T21:44:23Z")
By the way, to **Treat** , as with any conspiracy theory/evidence-free outrageous claim, I must ask this: where do the Jews fit in to all of this? ---
**Author:** ![Treat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Treat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/136 "2014-07-13T21:44:45Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well done, and if I may add an observation - because of the work of scientists building on each others’ work and engineers who put that work into practice, Treat has the _luxury_ of advancing his ideas on a worldwide computer network. If he stays limited to math as discussed in the bible, he’s stuck with very very basic arithmetic. Christ don’t do calculus. > > Fortunately for them, even people who see no value in science can still benefit from it. You know what they say about assumptions Bryan, but more you than me.:smack: Never said I was against science, I’m against pseudoscience and the nonsense that man believes he can think his way out of the problems he has created on this planet. I guess if your a dreamer you can believe it’s all gonna turn out hunky dory. ---
**Author:** ![Treat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Treat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/137 "2014-07-13T21:46:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > By the way, to **Treat** , as with any conspiracy theory/evidence-free outrageous claim, I must ask this: where do the Jews fit in to all of this? Theres the million dollar question, answers in your Bible. Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/138 "2014-07-13T21:46:36Z")
As an afterthought; fortunately for them, even people who think science _is sinful and evil_ can still benefit from it. The concept that science needs a free and easy exchange and ideas without pre-emptive dismissal actually gives the religious types far more freedom than they’d enjoy if religious-types were in control, because if there’s one thing religious-types hate more than atheists, it’s other religious-types who slightly disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/139 "2014-07-13T21:47:40Z")
> [@Treat](#): > > I’m against pseudoscience Thanks for the chuckle. ---
**Author:** ![Treat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Treat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treat)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992/140 "2014-07-13T21:48:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s reasonable to base one’s current understanding on the best evidence of the day. Some stranger’s weird numerical interpretation of the Bible is not even close to the best evidence of the day. Too bad it changes day to day, you must feel like a wave tossed in the ocean [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-math/692992.md?page=8)