# God's Plan, Reproductive Medicine, Selective Reduction / Abortion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 13, 2003, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-plan-reproductive-medicine-selective-reduction-abortion/148267 "2003-01-13T07:50:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-plan-reproductive-medicine-selective-reduction-abortion/148267/1 "2003-01-13T07:50:05Z")
I have a problem with “God’s Plan.” First, doesn’t that mean predestination? If God has a plan, that’s pretty much it. Second, doesn’t a plan negate the concept of free will? Third, doesn’t that make God one sick twist, for allowing all these horrible things to happen as part of his “plan”? But, more specifically, how do those who talk about God’s plan justify THIS: A Christian woman cannot conceive. She goes to the doctor and uses fertility drugs. Bam! She becomes pregnant with five. Then, she gets on TV and says something like this: “We were blessed by God with five children, we just cannot upset his plan by aborting any of them.” (Doctors advise selective reduction to ensure the health of the children actually born.) All of the children are born with some kind of birth defect. Doctors say the failure to reduce the number of children contributed to the birth defects. As I see it, God’s plan (if such a thing exists) was for the woman **not** have children. Only the miracles (irony noted) of modern science allowed her to conceive at all. Based on a true story. [sub]Damn cops shoot dog thread keeping me awake.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-plan-reproductive-medicine-selective-reduction-abortion/148267/2 "2003-01-13T08:46:35Z")
Not that I am doubting you, but do you have a cite regarding all of the children being born with birth defects? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-plan-reproductive-medicine-selective-reduction-abortion/148267/3 "2003-01-13T09:05:38Z")
It’s pretty darn common for anything over triplets to have serious problems. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-plan-reproductive-medicine-selective-reduction-abortion/148267/4 "2003-01-13T09:11:39Z")
So it seems. Found this cheery fact: > [@](#): > > Over 90% of triplet, quadruplet and quintuplet babies are born prematurely and/or have low birth-weight …over at this [website.](http://www.multiplebirthscanada.org/english/factsfigures.php) Seems to be a pretty good argument for selective reduction here. But this OP is about God or something, isn’t it? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-plan-reproductive-medicine-selective-reduction-abortion/148267/5 "2003-01-13T10:18:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beagle \* > **As I see it, God’s plan (if such a thing exists) was for the woman not have children. Only the miracles (irony noted) of modern science allowed her to conceive at all.** But God’s plan _includes_ the wonders of science that he has allowed mankind to discover, that is, unless the scientists in question are paleontologists. Oh I give up; God’s plan, unless he reveals it to you personally, is (like the writings of Nostradamus) much easier to see retrospectively; that’s not to say that it’s all bunk of course (I certainly don’t believe that it is), but that’s about the best you’re going to get in a debate on the subject that includes such a breadth of participants. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-plan-reproductive-medicine-selective-reduction-abortion/148267/6 "2003-01-13T13:24:23Z")
I think the question the OP is asking is: If we are not allowed to outbluff God’s plan with the whole abortion/birth control/coitus interruptus/being a CS major thing, as it is intruding on His turf by unnaturally taking life, why are wonky reproductive drugs permitted, when they are unnaturally making life? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gods-plan-reproductive-medicine-selective-reduction-abortion/148267/7 "2003-01-13T13:34:43Z")
But the whole omniscience thing means that it’s impossible to spring a surprise on God and therefore (arguably) whatever we do, he has already fully incorporated it into his plan. (much confusion about freewill/predestination ensues…)