# Godwin for the gander - Senator Durbin shoots his fucking mouth off... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593 "2005-06-16T18:55:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/301 "2005-06-18T22:55:14Z")
> [@wring](#): > > frankly I think it helps a fuck of a lot more than an administration who continues to claim the abuses are the results of a few low level ‘bad apples’, while ignoring suggestions of systemic abuse condoned/allowed/approved by higher ups (up to and including the issue of having Gitmo in the first place w/o any oversite by either our own system of laws or international observers). > > The fact that Gitmo continues to exist, is, IMHO, more of a reason for those fence sitters to continue to mistrust the US, not some Senator proclaiming “Hey, this shit is wrong” at the top of his lungs. Well aren’t they? You think that maniacal fuckstick Rumsfeld gets on the videophone every morning to Camp X-Ray and says “line 'em up jim, I need to know who to torture?” Nope. The DoD IS guilty of putting untrainted people into positions of power like that one though, and you couple the poor training with the fact you’ve got patriotically brainwashed teenagers with no worldview, managing these prisoners it’s a recipe, as were finding out, for disaster. And y’know, if he’d have actually said, at the top of his lungs “HEY! THIS SHIT’S ALL WRONG, WE NEED TO EXAMINE THIS MESS!” I’d actually have some respect for his crooked ass, but he just tried to provoke a reaction by invoking horriffic images so apart from the reality of captivity, that he made himself look like a crackpot. No one’s being shoved, still alive, into gas ovens, or buried in mass unmarked graves, or being gassed en masse. Jail sucks, Gitmo jail REALLY sucks, but for the last time, the comparisons are WRONG, and they were only made to inflame the passions of people who don’t deal well with the harsh nature of incarceration. Yeah, Gitmo is no $500 a plate fundraiser, but it’s SURE no picnic. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/302 "2005-06-18T23:29:12Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Nope. The DoD IS guilty of putting untrainted people into positions of power like that one though, and you couple the poor training with the fact you’ve got patriotically brainwashed teenagers with no worldview, managing these prisoners > it’s a recipe, as were finding out, for disaster. Sorry, that doesn’t wash. “The buck stops here.” The DoD is in charge, it’s happening on their watch, they are responsible. They should stand up like decent, honorable human beings, the kind of people that AMERICA is supposed to be about, and say, “We fucked up, we were wrong, and we’re going to fix it.” ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/303 "2005-06-18T23:43:46Z")
Judging from the polls and other comments that I hear, the reality of what our government is doing in the name of _freedom_ in a “war” that is supposed to be _against_ terrorism, it would seem an increasing number of Americans don’t buy into what our country’s leadership is doing. From my Southern hometown church newsletter today: **The Patriotic Cantata has ben cancelled due to low participation.** ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/304 "2005-06-18T23:56:50Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Yeah, Gitmo is no $500 a plate fundraiser, but it’s SURE no picnic. Is this verbal spittle intended to convince anyone of anything, or did you come up dry for a good closing line and have to punt? If the former, then recall that **Bosda** is no flying monkey, but he’s SURE no Cheese on a Ritz! -Your logic is defeated. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/305 "2005-06-19T00:14:14Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > Let them out. Tell their own story, oh fearless servant of truth and faith. What?? Don’t you know they are trained liars? Bushco told us so. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/306 "2005-06-19T00:15:03Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Sorry, that doesn’t wash. “The buck stops here.” The DoD is in charge, it’s happening on their watch, they are responsible. Don’t let Justice off the hook so easily. They’re the ones who came up with the [Justification for Use of Torture Memo](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23373-2004Jun7.html) back in 2002. You can get the [pdf of that here](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/documents/dojinterrogationmemo20020801.pdf). The author of the memo, Jay Bybee, is [now one of our ‘culture of life’ judges](http://www.metnews.com/articles/bybe031403.htm) at the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/307 "2005-06-19T00:18:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh BULLSHIT! He said what he said to grab headlines, no more, no less. He KNOWS that Gitmo is no Auschwitz, reportedly, he’s BEEN to Gitmo. He KNOWS better than to say that, but he did anyway, because it got him the press he was looking for. If I thought it would do any good, I’d challenge him to say what he said to the face of a Holocaust survivor on live TV, if his statements are as ‘true’ as everyone likes to believe they are. Misunderstood my ass. He was understood completely, and he was WRONG to make the comparisons. Period. Here is a fine example of the sort of histronics that make no sense to me. Durbin dod not make the comparisons that you (and several others) have claimed. His actual remarks have been posted in this thread, twice. He said, quite simply, that if the report about prisoner abuse had been delivered with no mention of the parties who did the abusing or who were abused, we would not be surprised to see the abuse described attributed to any of several horrific regimes. He made no claim that we were running a Gulag or that we were reenacting the Holocaust or the Killing Fields. He noted that a very specific act was consistent with stories we have heard about other groups who ignored human rights. If we do not want to be compared to groups that abuse human rights, we should not behave (or allow our agents to behave) in manners that are consistent with those other regimes. The abuse that has been directed toward Durbin in this thread has been far less temperate than his actual comments. As to the claim that we should try to soft-pedal the news–or our views of the news–I would note that that has been a consistent patteren of Right Wing dishonesty extending all the way back the the Reagan era. Once Reagan took the presidency (and further, when the Republicans took the Senate), there were frequent calls for Voice of America to stop being an objective news source and to begin being a better source of U.S. advertising. Yet, when the Iron Curtain finally fell, one of the persistent comments from the peoples who had lived behind it was that they appreciated that the American source of news included comments that were critical of America, while they could never trust TASS, Pravda, Iszvestia, etc., because those sources played up the evils of the West while denying that there were any problems in the Soviet countries. I see the same thing happening here. “_Oh. We can’t speak poorly of what we have done: we’ll give ourselves a bad reputation._.” Guys? We’ve GOT the bad reputation. Our people speaking out against our abuses are the one sign to the rest of the world that we may not be the monsters that they can already see through the actions of our illegal wars and extra-legal imprisonments. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/308 "2005-06-19T00:24:15Z")
Well said. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/309 "2005-06-19T00:25:48Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Well said. He misspelled ‘did’. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/310 "2005-06-19T00:27:39Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > He misspelled ‘did’. A typo is not a misspelling. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/311 "2005-06-19T00:30:25Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > A typo is not a misspelling. This one was. It was spelled incorrectly. As a result of a typo. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/312 "2005-06-19T00:51:48Z")
Who has _full_ access to Guantanamo? Who is able to make a report to the public about what is going on there? I know that the ICRC has limited access although they can meet with every prisoner in private. Their policy is never to make their reports public, but to discuss their findings privately with the country’s leadership. Have they used a different policy with Guantanamo? Is there anything to back up the link (in this thread?) about members of our government wanting to cut our contributions to the International Red Cross? A report on their website said that two juveniles are being held there. I thought all children had been released. What kind of country holds children prisoner without trial? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/313 "2005-06-19T01:00:52Z")
> [@](#): > > What kind of country holds children prisoner without trial? Our country is one of the few that executes children. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/314 "2005-06-19T01:16:12Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Our country is one of the few that executes children. Not anymore-the Supreme Court ruled that the death penalty cannot be used for crimes committed before the convicted was 18. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/315 "2005-06-19T01:21:34Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > …Durbin dod not make the comparisons that you (and several others) have claimed. His actual remarks have been posted in this thread, twice… Now you just hold on right there, Mr. Liberal Weenie with the transgendered username! Trying to distract our attention with facts! We already know what he said, that’s not important. Whats important is what Mr. Frist and Mr. Sensenbrenner _say_ that he said! There is truth, and there is facts, and all you got are facts! Not enough for you? Well, then, bring out the big guns! Here is Mr. Newt Gingrich, a man who’s honor and integrity is legendary: > [@](#): > > “Senator Richard Durbin has dishonored the United States and the entire U.S. Senate. Only by a vote to censure Senator Durbin for his conduct can the U.S. Senate restore its dignity and defend American honor” ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/316 "2005-06-19T01:22:08Z")
There was a time when Mr. Moto and Sam Stone were simply people with whom I disagreed and traded barbs with. It’s now seeming more and more like they are the enemy of everything this country needs ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/317 "2005-06-19T01:24:37Z")
There was a time when Mr. Moto and Sam Stone were simply people with whom I disagreed and traded barbs with. It’s now seeming more and more like they are the enemy of everything this country needs to stand for, and that makes me very depressed. Here’s what Durbin said, again: > [@](#): > > ``` > On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18-24 hours or more. On one occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold....On another occasion, the [air conditioner] had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. > > ....If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what > Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by __________. > > ``` If you honestly cannot put one of the regimes Durbin noted in that blank… well I dont’t believe you. You aren’t BEING honest. You are just a twisted apologist for something deeply unamerican and twisted. Please: resign your commendations. Turn in your citizenship, voluntarily. America was wasted on you. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/318 "2005-06-19T01:28:21Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > There was a time when Mr. Moto and Sam Stone were simply people with whom I disagreed and traded barbs with. It’s now seeming more and more like they are the enemy of everything this country needs to stand for, and that makes me very depressed. > > Here’s what Durbin said, again: > > If you honestly cannot put one of the regimes Durbin noted in that blank… well I dont’t believe you. You aren’t BEING honest. You are just a twisted apologist for something deeply unamerican and twisted. Please: resign your commendations. Turn in your citizenship, voluntarily. America was wasted on you. Uhhh…Sam is not American. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/319 "2005-06-19T01:29:49Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Uhhh…Sam is not American. Fair point. But then, I doubt he’d really be a good fit for the Canadians either. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593/320 "2005-06-19T01:34:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Mr. Liberal Weenie with the transgendered username! I really am not all that liberal and I prefer “androgynous.” (I guess you could still call me “weenie.”) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/godwin-for-the-gander-senator-durbin-shoots-his-fucking-mouth-off/308593.md?page=17)