# Going Clear, Alex Gibney's new documentary about Scientology **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 29, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259 "2015-03-29T03:10:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/241 "2015-04-10T03:04:21Z")
So what is one to make of the [Free Zone](http://www.freezone.org)? Like, all the crazy without any of the _crazy_? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/242 "2015-04-10T15:14:16Z")
Looking at other documentaries that are up on YouTube, I’m actually disappointed at the number of whistle-blowers who seem to still believe that Scientology’s methods are sound and mostly seem to be speaking out against Misgavagism. They still believe holding cans attached to a device you can rig from radio shack parts makes auditing way different from just adding a prop to Ye Olde Talking Cure. But that is another thing Scientology has in common with other religions. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/243 "2015-04-10T16:29:18Z")
Schism is a pretty common occurrence in religion. I can’t think of any major religion that isn’t divided into various sects. Even newer ones like Scientology and LDS have this. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/244 "2015-04-10T19:21:54Z")
If it helps them transition out of the cult, good for them. Some stay in the “the tech works” mindset but then drift away as they get some distance and learn more about just how much L. Ron Hubbard was full of shit. Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun both went through this. When they first left they still believed in Hubbard but wanted to get away from Miscavige. I don’t think either believes in Hubbard anymore. I’ve gotten the impression that Rathbun said he went on a journey to find where Hubbard stole all his good ideas, the ones that get people to join and stay. Many leave but want nothing more than to continue to be audited and use what worked for them. As long as they’re out from under the thumb of the cult, what difference does it make? They’ll either get more and more distance and come to realize they don’t need those ruby slippers after all, or they won’t. At least they’re no longer active Scientologists. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/245 "2015-04-12T00:58:40Z")
Yeah, if you have to pick your battles, being a practitioner of woo outside of a paranoid, oppressive and rapacious cult is way better than practicing woo inside it. But it’s kind of like the end of Huckleberry Finn – you admire that Huck was willing to burn in hell for helping his friend escape from slavery, but it’s disappointing that his hillbilly ass never thinks for a minute that maybe it’s slavery itself that’s evil. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/246 "2015-04-12T20:15:30Z")
I just saw it. Excellent. You know, with all the speculation I’ve heard over the years about Cruise and Travolta being unwilling to quit so they don’t get outed as gay, I don’t recall ever hearing anybody speculate that maybe the Scientologists have something on them that is a lot worse, like a crime or something. The film did allude to the possibilities being open when they talked about the file cabinets full of auditing session notes. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/247 "2015-04-12T20:37:18Z")
If you read Tony Ortega’s blog today it goes into Tom Cruise’s relationship with Mimi Rogers, and how Scientology broke up THEIR marriage on purpose too. It backfired badly, since they had to do it again with Nicole. It sounds gossipy and probably is, but it’s another example of how the cult/Miscavige rules Cruise’s life, and it does clarify that Cruise isn’t gay (he was quite the horndog) and that that whole “wanted to be a Monk” thing was just a joke by Rogers that blew up into established fact. I saw a movie last night with Nazanin Boniadi, the unfortunate actress who got caught up in Cruise’s world until she displeased Miscavige, and went from living with Cruise in a multi-million dollar home to scrubbing bathroom floors with a toothbrush. Even though she’s first billed on IMDB, she’s only in it for less than a minute at the beginning. It was a good movie though. (It was called Desert Dancer) ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/248 "2015-04-12T20:37:21Z")
I also have to question the association between scientology and celebrity success. It’s pretty funny that they make a big deal about their “celebrity centers” and stuff when [their line-up is remarkably unimpressive](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scientologists) once you look past those two really big names. I googled around for lists of current top movie stars. [This list of 100 from Vulture seems as good as any](http://www.vulture.com/2014/10/most-valuable-movie-stars.html). Only one person is on that list AND the list of celebrity scientologists from Wikipedia. In fact, none of the lists I found had any scientologists on them except for maybe Tom Cruise. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/249 "2015-04-12T21:18:18Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > I also have to question the association between scientology and celebrity success. It’s pretty funny that they make a big deal about their “celebrity centers” and stuff when [their line-up is remarkably unimpressive](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scientologists) once you look past those two really big names. My understanding is not that they are all that successful, just that they deliberately court people in Hollywood for the clout. They would need to have their tendrils in a lot deeper to actually somehow guarantee success for those who join. They’d need to heavily populate those who hire the actors. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/250 "2015-04-12T21:38:20Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > It’s their own fault for falling prey to a cult. Unless they were raised in it as a child and indoctrinated their entire life, it is no less than 51% their fault. Some folks have a better B.S. detector than others, but all humans have a sense of reason and rationale. I was raised in what I consider a [cult](http://hwarmstrong.com/). As soon as I became an adult I said “this shit is nuts” and I bailed. So even if one is raised in a cult one should still have a natural sense of reason that eventually takes over. Back in the early 80’s before the internet and all the exposure about Scientology I picked up a copy of Dianetics. About 10 pages in I realized it was lunacy. WTF is wrong with some people that they would buy into this horseshit? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/251 "2015-04-12T21:48:27Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > My understanding is not that they are all that successful, just that they deliberately court people in Hollywood for the clout. Yep, and that’s what’s so amusing about their remarkable lack of success. If you pull out the second-generation ones like Giovanni Ribisi and Beck, the list is even less impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/252 "2015-04-13T03:29:39Z")
And they lost one of their most successful when Paul Haggis quit. Tom Cruise may be a big movie stah, but when it comes to Academy Awards, Paul Haggis has one, Tom Cruise and all the other celebrity Scientologists together, ever, have one (That was Isaac Hayes, who won for Best Song for Shaft in 1972. He was also nominated that year for Best Score). Paul Haggis got 4 nominations while he was a Scientologist (1995 Best Adapted Screenplay for Million Dollar Baby, 2006 Best Director for Crash, 2006 Best Picture for Crash, which also won, and 2007 Best Original Screenplay for Letters from Iwo Jima) Sure, there have been other nominations, but not that many and not that recently. Tom Cruise has 3 nominations (1990 Best Actor for Born on the Fourth of July, 1997 Best Actor for Jerry Maguire, 2000 Best Supporting Actor for Magnolia); John Travolta - 2 (1978 Best Actor for Saturday Night Fever, 1995 Best Actor for Pulp Fiction); Juliette Lewis - 1 (1992 Best Supporting Actress for Cape Fear); Anne Archer - 1 (1988 Best Supporting Actress for Fatal Attraction); Mark Isham - 1 (1993 Score for A River Runs Through It); Karen Black - 1 (1971 Best Supporting Actress for Five Easy Pieces). There might be more but that’s all I could find in a quick search. There are more Scientologists in the TV realm, like Elizabeth Moss, Jason Lee, Nancy Cartwright, Jenna Elfman and Kirstie Alley, but I don’t pay attention to TV so I’m not going to go looking up Emmy or Golden Globes nominations/wins. I like that when one of the TV people leave Scientology, it’s a big deal in the tabloids, like Leah Remini and Jason Beghe. So, yeah, it’s not like Scientology is routinely churning out a big batch of highly successful people. And now with all this bad publicity I hope that it’ll be even harder to recruit future celebrities. I was long hoping that Michael Peña would win an Oscar someday, until I found out he was a Scieno. I was/am so disappointed. I always liked him a lot. Now, fuck him. He joined in 2005! What the hell? They didn’t have the internet in 2005? ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/253 "2015-04-13T16:09:35Z")
I keep confusing Juliette Lewis, Julianne Moore, and Julianna Margulies. Moore was the one in _Nashville_. Margulies was involved with a different cult, and spoke at my sister’s college graduation. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/254 "2015-04-13T19:00:35Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > I keep confusing Juliette Lewis, Julianne Moore, and Julianna Margulies. Moore was the one in _Nashville_. Margulies was involved with a different cult, and spoke at my sister’s college graduation. Assuming you’re talking about the 1975 movie, Julianne Moore was not in Nashville. There was a 2012 TV series but it’s not listed on her IMDB filmography. Was she uncredited? I tried looking at the cast list for the show but there are over 700 entries for cast and I got tired of scrolling. She just won a Best Actress Oscar for Still Alice. I can’t find one word anywhere about Juliana Margulies (for others, on TV formerly played an emergency room nurse and George Clooney’s girlfriend on ER, and currently on The Good Wife) ever having been in any kind of cult. Cite? Juliette Lewis was born into Scientology. Her father, actor Geoffrey Lewis, just died and there’s even a Dope thread about him (out of respect for the dead in general I’ve refrained from posting in that thread opining what a brainwashed tool I think he was and how sad that he infected his kids, because my greatest sympathy regarding those caught in the trap goes to those who were born in or forced to join as a child). Anyway, besides Cape Fear she was also in Natural Born Killers. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/255 "2015-04-13T19:07:18Z")
[Tony Ortega’s blog today](http://tonyortega.org/2015/04/13/if-you-want-the-irs-to-reexamine-scientologys-tax-exempt-status-its-time-to-get-real/#more-21822) has a substantial way people can help to get the tax exempt status revoked. And you don’t have to leave your name in public as with the failed White House petition. ---
**Author:** ![infinitii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e8c25b/32.png) [@infinitii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infinitii)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/256 "2015-04-13T19:50:35Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Assuming you’re talking about the 1975 movie, Julianne Moore was not in Nashville. There was a 2012 TV series but it’s not listed on her IMDB filmography. Was she uncredited? I tried looking at the cast list for the show but there are over 700 entries for cast and I got tired of scrolling. She just won a Best Actress Oscar for Still Alice. > > I can’t find one word anywhere about Juliana Margulies (for others, on TV formerly played an emergency room nurse and George Clooney’s girlfriend on ER, and currently on The Good Wife) ever having been in any kind of cult. Cite? I assume **Hershele** meant the series _Nashville_, which has similarly red-haired actress Connie Britton as a lead, but then again Julianne Moore was in a couple different Robert Altman movies (though not, as you mentioned, _Nashville_), so maybe that is where the confusion lies. Also, the director for _Still Alice_, who is a guy, escaped from a cult. Very corn-fusing. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/257 "2015-04-13T19:53:11Z")
For those in Chicago, the local Scientology org is moving from its current shabby location on Lincoln Ave. to the South Loop (650 S. Clark, between Harrison/Polk and LaSalle/Clark). At some point anyway. According to this [article](http://m.columbiachronicle.com/metro/article_cad87d32-e013-11e4-a353-d3ed9887d86b.html?mode=jqm) they bought the building 10 years ago and it’s still not renovated. There’s a picture of the building [here](http://m.chicago.curbed.com/archives/2015/04/06/scientology-wants-to-build-a-bigger-church-in-chicago.php) (someone in the Comment section claims that the city is giving the cult trouble, saying “The city is suing the church for multiple code violations, even asking for the building to be put into receivership.” Good). The cult is shrinking but they keep trying to build or renovate buildings for “Ideal Orgs” (or Ideal Morgues as some in the Bunker say). I think it’s part of the tax scam. Their numbers will never grow large enough to make these Orgs viable, yet they’ll keep bleeding money and the cult will keep pressuring their members for more and more EXTRA money (on top of the considerable cost of all the classes, coursework, new and newer editions of books, new and “improved” e-meters, and a thousand other things required to move up (ha!) the Bridge) to build and sustain these buildings. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/258 "2015-04-13T23:33:24Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > I also have to question the association between scientology and celebrity success. It’s pretty funny that they make a big deal about their “celebrity centers” and stuff when [their line-up is remarkably unimpressive](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scientologists) once you look past those two really big names. > > I googled around for lists of current top movie stars. [This list of 100 from Vulture seems as good as any](http://www.vulture.com/2014/10/most-valuable-movie-stars.html). Only one person is on that list AND the list of celebrity scientologists from Wikipedia. In fact, none of the lists I found had any scientologists on them except for maybe Tom Cruise. By comparison, the list of [actors and directors who are atheists](http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/25/living/gallery/atheists/) has several undeniable A-listers: Jodie Foster, Julianne Moore, Emma Thompson, Hugh Laurie, James Cameron. Oh, and _Sir Ian McKellan_ and _Katherine Hepburn_. I’d say we win this game. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/259 "2015-04-14T00:27:19Z")
In my OP I said: > [@Equipoise](#): > > Since it didn’t open wide there aren’t that many reviews up on [Rotten Tomatoes](http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/going_clear_scientology_and_the_prison_of_belief_2015/?search=Going%20Clear), but it’s at 93% Fresh, and 100% with Top 10 Critics. Amazingly enough, and very rare, the Fresh percentage has gone UP. Usually it goes down as more critics weigh in, even if slightly. It’s now 95%! Still 100% with Top Critics. I didn’t make note of what the Audience Score was before, but it’s 92% now. (Love that list of atheists, thanks!) ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/260 "2015-04-14T00:32:13Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Assuming you’re talking about the 1975 movie, Julianne Moore was not in Nashville. There was a 2012 TV series but it’s not listed on her IMDB filmography. Was she uncredited? No, I just had the wrong Altman movie; I meant _Short Cuts_. > [@Equipoise](#): > > I can’t find one word anywhere about Juliana Margulies (for others, on TV formerly played an emergency room nurse and George Clooney’s girlfriend on ER, and currently on The Good Wife) ever having been in any kind of cult. Cite? Wikipedia says she went to a Waldorf school, which means anthroposophy, which means theosophy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259.md?page=14)