# Going Clear, Alex Gibney's new documentary about Scientology **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 29, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259 "2015-03-29T03:10:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/61 "2015-03-30T20:32:53Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > …another thing not mentioned in the documentary, Hubbard was still married to his first wife when he married [Sara Northrup](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sara_Northrup_Hollister), the woman whose writings were read in the documentary by Sherry Stringfield. Sara kept quiet until she was on her deathbed then spilled everything, including when Hubbard kidnapped their daughter, took her to Cuba, told Northrup he’d killed her and cut her into little pieces, then said, ha, just kidding! What a scumbag. Is she the one Hubbard told “If you really love me, you’d kill yourself”? ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/62 "2015-03-30T20:34:15Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > I’ll have to wait until it shows up on HBO-GO. Going Clear will be playing again tonight at 8:00 Central time, plus several more times throughout the month. According to a tweet from HBO, it’s now on HBO On Demand and HBO Go. It’s streaming other places too. If anyone wants a link, PM me. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/63 "2015-03-30T21:01:42Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Going Clear will be playing again tonight at 8:00 Central time, plus several more times throughout the month. According to a tweet from HBO, it’s now on HBO On Demand and HBO Go. It’s streaming other places too. If anyone wants a link, PM me. I just checked the HBO-GO app on my Roku, and it is the #1 featured item - the very first thing available to click on. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/64 "2015-03-30T21:11:33Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Still, the government has a strong interest in not allowing itself to be bullied like that, whatever the short term costs and hassles of standing up to it. The IRS is just one entity in the US government, and they all have their own budgets, all of which have to be approved by Congress. So it’s not as if the IRS had an unlimited piggy bank from which to pay lawyers to defend 2500 lawsuits. They’d exhaust their budget, then have to go to Congress to get more, and probably wouldn’t get it until the next budget. In the meanwhile, the CoS would be lobbying Congress, which they have done successfully using various front organizations. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/65 "2015-03-30T21:20:48Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > Is she the one Hubbard told “If you really love me, you’d kill yourself”? I know that was in the book but I can’t remember if he said it to his 1st or 2nd wife. He beat both of them. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/66 "2015-03-30T21:29:51Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > The IRS is just one entity in the US government, and they all have their own budgets, all of which have to be approved by Congress. So it’s not as if the IRS had an unlimited piggy bank from which to pay lawyers to defend 2500 lawsuits. They’d exhaust their budget, then have to go to Congress to get more, and probably wouldn’t get it until the next budget. In the meanwhile, the CoS would be lobbying Congress, which they have done successfully using various front organizations. I understand all of that, but it just seems like there needs to be a way to fight things like this. We can’t just allow organizations to bully government agencies in this manner. It makes a mockery of government. There needs to be some mechanism to protect agencies against this kind of legal harassment. Otherwise government becomes meaningless. If there’s no mechanism in place to protect against this kind of thing, why hasn’t it been successfully been done against other agencies or against the IRS by other parties? It just seems like there must have been something else going on behind the scenes; blackmail or bribes or something. Something beyond just overwhelming them with lawsuits. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/67 "2015-03-30T21:38:36Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I understand all of that, but it just seems like there needs to be a way to fight things like this. We can’t just allow organizations to bully government agencies in this manner. It makes a mockery of government. There needs to be some mechanism to protect agencies against this kind of legal harassment. Otherwise government becomes meaningless. OK. The wheels of government grind so slowly that they just aren’t set up to handle this. The IRS would either have to get an emergency appropriation to shovel money out to law firms (never an easy sell no matter who is in control of Congress) or a law specifically against an entity claiming to be a religion. You have to admit, it takes a truly unique type of evil to make one feel\* bad\* for the Internal Revenue Service. > [@](#): > > If there’s no mechanism in place to protect against this kind of thing, why hasn’t it been successfully been done against other agencies or against the IRS by other parties? It just seems like there must have been something else going on behind the scenes; blackmail or bribes or something. Something beyond just overwhelming them with lawsuits. There is a term that I have not been able to find via Google for “abuse by lawsuit”. I thought it was “barretty” but apparently that is not it. There are laws against “frivolous lawsuits”, but I haven’t found anything about sheer quantity. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/68 "2015-03-30T22:00:27Z")
Testing ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/69 "2015-03-30T22:02:02Z")
Huh. Google Chrome is refusing to display either page 2 of this thread, or a new reply page. I was able to post with quick reply, but I had to come to Firefox to read this page. That’s…odd. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/70 "2015-03-30T22:12:58Z")
[ATMB thread about Chrome refusing to show this page of the thread (so far).](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=753101) ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/71 "2015-03-30T22:32:51Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > At this point, the membership of the “church” seems almost superfluous. Why do they care if they attract any new members? They have built a self-sustaining financial empire. (Tax free!) The membership could wither away to nothing, and the financial empire would still exist. > > So convincing people to leave or not to join is of limited utility at this point. What is necessary is for the IRS to gather up its gonads and revisit the tax status of this entity. I would agree with this. Membership truly is irrelevant with the real estate holdings they have. Their net worth is staggering. How does a church work, though, from a compensation standpoint? Do people like Miscavige draw a salary (I am guessing yes), and if so, who decides what he gets paid? Since it is a non-profit, are the salaries of church leaders published? ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/72 "2015-03-30T22:39:33Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I would agree with this. Membership truly is irrelevant with the real estate holdings they have. Their net worth is staggering. > > How does a church work, though, from a compensation standpoint? Do people like Miscavige draw a salary (I am guessing yes), and if so, who decides what he gets paid? Since it is a non-profit, are the salaries of church leaders published? In theory, Miscavige gets $100,000 a year. In reality, with Sea Org members serving his every whim, he lives the life of a billionaire. [Here’s a segment from the book excepted by Variety:](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/how-scientology-seduced-tom-cruise-409686) To maintain Miscavige’s physique, chefs have to enter each portion size into a computer. Miscavige often starts the day with an omelet of one whole egg and five egg whites. Two-and-a-half hours later, lunch is provided. Two choices would be prepared daily, for both him and his wife. Dinner is a five-course meal, and once again, dual entrees are prepared for him to choose from. Miscavige’s favorite foods include wild mushroom risotto, linguine in white clam sauce and pate de foie gras. Several times a week, a truck from Santa Monica Seafood delivers Atlantic salmon or live lobster. Corn-fed lamb is flown in from New Zealand. When guests such as Cruise come to dinner at his well-appointed house, the kitchen goes into extravagant bursts of invention, with ingredients sometimes flown in from different continents. Two hours after dinner, the first evening snack arrives, with lighter offerings such as Italian white bean soup or clam chowder. After midnight, there is a final late-night snack – a selection of nonfat cheeses, an apple crisp or blueberry crepes, often garnished with edible flowers. Two full-time chefs work all day preparing these meals, with several full-time stewards to serve them. According to Headley’s wife, Claire, who oversaw the finances for the Religious Technology Center between 2000 and 2004, the food costs for the Miscaviges and their guests would range between $3,000 to as much as $20,000 a week. The Sea Org members are paid something like $.50 an hour, and are often fined for infractions or forced to donate their meager pay to buy a present for Miscavige. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/73 "2015-03-30T23:37:36Z")
This sounds like a version of North Korea. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/74 "2015-03-30T23:56:08Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Huh. Google Chrome is refusing to display either page 2 of this thread, or a new reply page. I was able to post with quick reply, but I had to come to Firefox to read this page. > > That’s…odd. [ominous music] They’re here. [/ominous music] ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/75 "2015-03-30T23:57:21Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > This sounds like a version of North Korea. Worse. Imagine if a bunch of people from South Korea _voluntarily_ moved to North Korea. Most of the people in the Sea Org are regular folks who got sucked into this cult. I’ve always been fascinated how seemingly intelligent, rational people wound up as members, and Paul Haggis is the first with the communication skill to help me understand (though I could never imagine myself falling for it, protected as I am by a rich, chocolaty coating of cynicism.) I have pity mainly for the children born into the cult, like the musician Beck. I do have to say, the “Church” of Scientology has it all over North Korea in two important ways: [ul] [li][Snappier](https://otviiisgrrr8.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/captain-david-miscavige.jpg) [uniforms](http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02701/kim_2701423b.jpg).[/li][li]Leader with a [better](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/David_Miscavige_-_Portrait.jpg) [haircut](http://images.entertainment.ie/images_content/rectangle/620x372/kju20141011228705.jpg).[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/76 "2015-03-31T00:02:03Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > [ominous music] > > They’re here. > > [/ominous music] No, it definitly is a bad link put in post #60 by **Equipoise**. The Mods have been alerted, but they’re probably off [battling the Rockers.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mods_and_rockers) ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/77 "2015-03-31T00:10:54Z")
Sorry about that guys! Nothing creepy happening, just brain damage. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/78 "2015-03-31T00:58:53Z")
I can’t imagine what secrets they have on Travolta and Cruise that would be worse than being known as a Scientologist. I know that I’ll never watch another movie with Tom Cruise in it. In the very best light, he’s an egomaniac. In the worst, he’s a willing promoter of a dangerous and manipulative “religion.” I’m now pretty convinced that Travolta is gay thanks to a recent photo from a guy in Florida who posted a FB photo of a bald Travolta at a Planet Fitness gym. The actor reportedly came up and introduced himself to him at 3am, then later asked for his business card so that he could discuss woodworking (ha!). That removed all doubt from my mind. What celebrity works out at Planet Fitness when he surely has a state-of-the-art gym in his home. At 3am. Let’s just say that everyone seems to suspect that he was there for…let’s just say, social reasons. > **[What Happens When John Travolta Introduces Himself When You're Exercising At...](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/john-travolta-gym_n_6479752)** > > What Happens When John Travolta Introduces Himself When You're Exercising At 3 A.M. I wish that Travolta would just come out already. Being gay just isn’t that big of a deal to reasonable people anymore, and who cares about the rest? I’d much rather see him come out of the closet and leave the church than to stay in the church because he’s afraid of being found out. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/79 "2015-03-31T01:07:50Z")
I’ll also say that if Chrome is not showing this article, Yahoo! is making up for it. My feed is filled with negative stories about Scientology. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/80 "2015-03-31T01:48:36Z")
It’s been fixed and is now working on Chrome. Thanks nameless Mod! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259.md?page=5)