# Going Clear, Alex Gibney's new documentary about Scientology **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 29, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259 "2015-03-29T03:10:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/101 "2015-03-31T13:45:17Z")
I received a reply from HBO Canada and here is the meat of it > [@](#): > > We are working on acquiring the rights to this film. However, we were not in time to match the HBO U.S. premiere. That is all the information we have at this time. I will forward your comments to our Programming Department for review. That works with the idea that there may be some sort of release for it in Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/102 "2015-03-31T13:50:45Z")
Is this movie eligible for the documentary Oscar next year? It would be interesting if they nominated it. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/103 "2015-03-31T14:03:14Z")
Why do they keep treating Canada like such a ??? sister? Dammit all to Hell. Why can’t I remember that expression? I am certain that I’ve seen that expression acted out many times in the past. But for some stupid reason, I never seem to be able to remember the word that belongs in there. What is that word? Can anybody tell me? And why can’t I ever seem to remember it? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/104 "2015-03-31T14:11:53Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Why do they keep treating Canada like such a ??? sister? > > Dammit all to Hell. Why can’t I remember that expression? > > I am certain that I’ve seen that expression acted out many times in the past. But for some stupid reason, I never seem to be able to remember the word that belongs in there. What is that word? Can anybody tell me? And why can’t I ever seem to remember it? red headed stepsister? ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/105 "2015-03-31T14:12:05Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Is this movie eligible for the documentary Oscar next year? It would be interesting if they nominated it. Yes, it had the necessary theatrical release in Los Angeles County to qualify. It also screened in New York and a couple other places as well as two festivals, but that is just gravy as far as the Oscars go. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/106 "2015-03-31T14:18:21Z")
Red-headed step-sister? ETA: Ninjaed by Kayaker… ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/107 "2015-03-31T14:21:25Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > This is true, it is much easier to isolate people on boats, and that’s definitely part of the reason for taking to the waters. But also like CalMeacham said, Hubbard was compensating for what went wrong with his Navy career. He was a funny guy, and all of Scientology would be hilarious, if it also wasn’t hugely harmful. The film mentioned how people were thrown overboard, but didn’t mention people, even small children, being imprisoned in the chain locker. By the way, I can understand the frustration Canadians must feel over the delay in screening the film, but in this case it makes a lot of sense. Paul Haggis and the other former members will very likely travel to each country and do a whole media tour to support it. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/108 "2015-03-31T14:52:56Z")
Tom Cuise’s “Freedom Medal of Valor” was amusing, sounds like something Kim Jong-il would have awarded himself. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/109 "2015-03-31T17:44:39Z")
I watched it on demand last night and was already a little familiar with what went on in the “church”. I have to wonder though, did LHR say to himself, “I am going to come up with the most preposterous story imaginable and see how many people I can get to buy in.”? I’ve heard it said that the more outrageous the lie, the the more likely it is to be believed. That one Scientology is based on sure takes the cake. It beats the “Old Man in the Sky” story by a country mile. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/110 "2015-03-31T18:08:46Z")
I don’t remember his name, but one of the ex-members was talking about when he reached the level where the Xenu story was revealed to him. He was given a locked metal case and told that only he was allowed to open it and only when he was alone. He opened it and found these xeroxed copies of hand written pages detailing the story of Xenu, the Thetans, the DC8s, the volcanoes, etc. His immediate reaction was “wtf?” He couldn’t believe these were the real teachings and decided that he was being tested and had passed because he had recognized it as nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/111 "2015-03-31T18:20:27Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I don’t remember his name, but one of the ex-members was talking about when he reached the level where the Xenu story was revealed to him. > > He was given a locked metal case and told that only he was allowed to open it and only when he was alone. He opened it and found these xeroxed copies of hand written pages detailing the story of Xenu, the Thetans, the DC8s, the volcanoes, etc. > > His immediate reaction was “wtf?” He couldn’t believe these were the real teachings and decided that he was being tested and had passed because he had recognized it as nonsense. Stan Marsh? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/112 "2015-03-31T18:28:22Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I don’t remember his name, but one of the ex-members was talking about when he reached the level where the Xenu story was revealed to him. > > He was given a locked metal case and told that only he was allowed to open it and only when he was alone. He opened it and found these xeroxed copies of hand written pages detailing the story of Xenu, the Thetans, the DC8s, the volcanoes, etc. > > His immediate reaction was “wtf?” He couldn’t believe these were the real teachings and decided that he was being tested and had passed because he had recognized it as nonsense. That was Oscar winning writer and director Paul Haggis. At the introductory level - aka “Dianetics” - it’s not much different than EST or other self-help systems, because they were [all borrowing from the same source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_semantics#Connections_to_other_disciplines) - Alfred Korzybski and General Semantics. If it were completely insane at the outset, they’d never have anyone sign up. What happened is that nobody exhibited the powers Hubbard claimed the person who graduated the “Dianetics” course - attained the state of “Clear” - would have. So he had to invent a new level. Then another. As you go deeper into it, any connection to reality vanishes, and you’re entirely in the world of Hubbard’s cheap pulp SF imagination. Haggis did the best job of any ex-Scientologist of explaining how one would get sucked in, that all your friends (and by the time you get to the level he was, most of your friends are fellow Scientologists) are raving about what a mind-blower that level was, etc. Most of them probably had the same doubts, but they’ve spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to get there, and they have to either admit they have been duped or go along with it. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/113 "2015-03-31T19:00:08Z")
The crazy as a shithouse rat look in Tom Cruise’s eyes was worth seeing the documentary through to the end. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/114 "2015-03-31T19:12:50Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > The crazy as a shithouse rat look in Tom Cruise’s eyes was worth seeing the documentary through to the end. But Scientology has given him powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men, hasn’t it? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/115 "2015-03-31T19:23:23Z")
I was just able to check out the line up for the Toronto Hot Docs festival, and Going Clear is not being shown at the fest. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/116 "2015-03-31T19:26:12Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > But Scientology has given him powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men, hasn’t it? 😕 That’s just it. Anyone who claims to have reached the highest level either realizes it’s bullshit or is totally deluded. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/117 "2015-03-31T19:28:28Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > That was Oscar winning writer and director Paul Haggis. > > At the introductory level - aka “Dianetics” - it’s not much different than EST or other self-help systems, because they were [all borrowing from the same source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_semantics#Connections_to_other_disciplines) - Alfred Korzybski and General Semantics. If it were completely insane at the outset, they’d never have anyone sign up. What happened is that nobody exhibited the powers Hubbard claimed the person who graduated the “Dianetics” course - attained the state of “Clear” - would have. So he had to invent a new level. Then another. As you go deeper into it, any connection to reality vanishes, and you’re entirely in the world of Hubbard’s cheap pulp SF imagination. > > . Hubbard didn’t only steal from Korzybski and General Semantics. He was eclectic and stole from everywhere. If you read the books that are critical of him and Scientology, and search the Operation Clambake website you’;ll find that he took stuff from Aleister Crowley and the OTO, from various other “mental sciences” theorists (Hubbard didn’t invent the term “engram”) and from others. As I’ve remarked elsewhere, he didn’t even originate the idea of packaging his 'technology" as a religion – the theme of using religion as a cover for secret knowledge was a pretty common idea in the Astounding Science Fiction circle he ran in. It had been used by Asimov (“Foundation”), Campbell (“All”) and Heinlein (“Sixth Column”, his rewrite of “All”, now in print as “The Day After Tomorrow”) ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/118 "2015-03-31T19:28:35Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > But Scientology has given him powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men, hasn’t it? 😕 Rumor is that Cruise modeled his character in _A Few Good Men_ on Miscavige. And that intense stare that he often does is the legendary “OT III Death Stare”. At OT III level, he supposedly acquired M.E.S.T powers and can alter Matter, Energy, Space and Time and can kill with a glance. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/119 "2015-03-31T19:36:10Z")
I fell asleep half way through the documentary last night. :smack: I went for dinner and and an evening of entertainment on board the ship once. It was all very hospitable, the food was good and they had their own band with some local entertainers invited too. Quite of a few of the crew were from Japan. There was a general air of nervousness about them all. I was glad to disembark. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/120 "2015-03-31T19:38:00Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > That’s just it. Anyone who claims to have reached the highest level either realizes it’s bullshit or is totally deluded. > [@](#): > > **Cruise** : I think it’s a privilege to call yourself a Scientologist and it is something that you have to earn, and… because a Scientologist does. He, or she _has the ability to create new and better realities_ and improve conditions. Uh, being a Scientologist, you look at somebody and you know absolutely that you can help them. (cut) > > So, for me, it really is KSW, and it’s just like, it’s something that, uh, I don’t mince words with that. You know, with anything (unintelligible), but that policy to me has really has gone , boy, there’s a time I went through and I said, “You know what…” When I read it, I just went (noise that sounds like poof), “This is it. That’s exactly it.” (cut) > > Being a Scientologist, when you drive past an accident, it’s not like anyone else. As you drive past, you know you have to do something about it, _because you know you’re the only one that can really help_. (cut) > > \ > > It’s like, man, you’re either in or you’re out. [my italics] [Transcript here](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Tom_Cruise) I’d say he’s all in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259.md?page=7)