# Going Clear, Alex Gibney's new documentary about Scientology **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 29, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259 "2015-03-29T03:10:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/141 "2015-04-01T12:26:21Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > My first thought was “good drugs”. But Scientology is extremely anti-drug. I once went to one of their centers and was audited. But I never went back. **During the auditing, they asked me to tell them every single kind of drug I had ever taken.** > > They told me that if I joined the church, I could no longer take any drugs - even if they were prescribed by my doctor. That did it for me. I never went back and eventually had to tell them that if they didn’t stop phoning me and berating me to come back, I would call the police and have them arrested. > > But the real reason I never went back was when they told me I could never take any drugs any more - legal drugs or illegal drugs. I realized they were out of their freaking minds and I should be the one counselling them - not the other way around. > > Fuck Scientology. It’s a horrible criminal scam. (Bolding mine) Gee – I’m sure they’d NEVER use information like that for blackmail. Not at all. Scientology is indeed anti-drug, but it’s still scary about what it says and does. It’s drug-rehab program Narconon sounds like other, non-Scientologist programs, and it’s been alleged that they use the program as a foothold to introduce scientology. Well-intentioned people funnel addicts into the program, or support it as an available rehab program, not realizing that Narconon is VERY Scientology-based, and proselytizes for the Church. > [@](#): > > The program has garnered considerable controversy as a result of its origins in Scientology[11][22][23] and its methods. Its drug rehabilitation treatment has been described as “medically unsafe”,[24] “quackery”[12][13][25] and “medical fraud”,[26] while academic and medical experts have dismissed its educational program as containing “factual errors in basic concepts such as physical and mental effects, addiction and even spelling”.[27] > > In turn, Narconon has claimed that mainstream medicine is “biased” against it, and that “people who endorse so-called controlled drug use cannot be trusted to review a program advocating totally drug-free living.”[28] Narconon has said that criticism of its programs is “bigoted”,[29] and that its critics are “in favor of drug abuse … they are either using drugs or selling drugs.”[30] > > Hubbard’s writings, which underlie the program, state that drugs and their metabolites are stored in the body’s fatty tissue, causing the addict’s cravings when partially released later on, and can be flushed out through a regimen known as Purification Rundown, which involves exercise, sauna and intake of high doses of vitamins.[31][32] This hypothesis is contradicted by experimental evidence, and is not accepted by mainstream medicine or education.[2][18][31][33][34][35][36] Narconon’s claimed 75% to 80% success rate has been refuted by both drug experts and former employees.[37][38] > > Narconon’s facilities have been the location of several deaths, some of which have been linked to a lack of trained medical personnel on site. There exist no independently recognized studies which confirm the efficacy of the Narconon program > **[Narconon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narconon)** > > Narconon International (commonly known as Narconon) is a Scientology organization which promotes the theories of founder L. Ron Hubbard regarding substance abuse treatment and addiction. Its parent company is the Association for Better Living and Education (ABLE), which is owned and controlled by the Church of Scientology. Headquartered in Hollywood, California, United States, Narconon operates several dozen residential centers worldwide, chiefly in the U.S. and western Europe. The organiza The... Narconon prescxribes high doses of niacin (!) to combat drugs, and believes that drugs are stored in the body’s fat cells. It also insists on using auditing techniques to get users off drugs. Ironically, according to ex-Scientologists who were familiar with L. Ron, despite his claims that Scientology gave its adherents control over the body (thuis theoretically making the use of drugs unnecessary), Hubbard himself maintained a large private pharmacy, and self-medicated. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/142 "2015-04-01T13:03:48Z")
On Tony Ortega’s blog this morning is [news](http://tonyortega.org/2015/04/01/class-action-lawsuit-filed-against-scientology-drug-rehabs-in-california/) of a class action lawsuit against NarConon, the Scieno’s scummy “anti-drug” front. While you’re there, yesterday’s blog is well-worth looking at. It contains the story, including an audio recording, of a woman with doubts being declared a Supressive Person. There’s a transcript if you can’t listen to the recording. One of her “crimes” was watching Dancing With The Stars! It’s chilling as the dick Declaring her is so matter-of-fact, while she keeps trying to hold off what she knows is coming, that she knows might completely ruin her life. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/143 "2015-04-01T13:13:12Z")
Oops, 2 days ago. Direct link: [http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/30/audio-leak-hear-a-scientologist-being-declared-suppressive-and-facing-the-loss-of-her-family/](http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/30/audio-leak-hear-a-scientologist-being-declared-suppressive-and-facing-the-loss-of-her-family/) ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/144 "2015-04-01T16:12:41Z")
I have to say, as interesting as this thread has been, I’m kind of disappointed that we don’t have a bunch of new users who are jumping in to defend Scientology or bash the documentary. Either Scientology is slipping, or the Straight Dope isn’t the universal fount of knowledge that I believed it to be. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/145 "2015-04-01T16:53:08Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Well yeah but when are you people going to start a thread about Mormons? And anyway, lots of other religions are much worse. No other religion has the same kind of secrecy. Love Catholicism or hate it, you can buy the complete Catholic catechism at any book store (or borrow it at any library) and find out exactly what the Church teaches on almost EVERYTHING without investing much time or money. In the same way, you can get a book of Mormon anywhere- even at most hotel rooms. You wanna know what it’s all about, you can find out for yourself for free. Similarly, any rabbi could tell you the basics of Judaism for free in ten minutes. Any Muslim imam could tell you the basics of Islam for free in a few minutes. Try doing that with Scientology. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/146 "2015-04-01T16:54:07Z")
That’s a good point. I’m sure Google has indexed this thread; everything on here seems to be indexed within minutes; and we’ve repeatedly mentioned Gibney and Going Clear. You’d think that Scientology would have it’s minions scouring the web looking for such discussions and then signing up to defend themselves. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/147 "2015-04-01T18:26:25Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > This is weird. > [http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/07/08/shock-alliance-farrakhan-praises-integration-of-scientology-into-nation-of-islam-theology-says-whites-should-use-it-to-become-civilized-to-avoid-being-devil-christians-satan-jews/](http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/07/08/shock-alliance-farrakhan-praises-integration-of-scientology-into-nation-of-islam-theology-says-whites-should-use-it-to-become-civilized-to-avoid-being-devil-christians-satan-jews/) > > [The Mothership of All Alliances: Scientology and the Nation of Islam | The New Republic](http://www.newrepublic.com/article/politics/magazine/108205/scientology-joins-forces-with-nation-of-islam) That is pretty terrifying, and utterly bizarre. At the apartment building I used to live in, a neighbor had been in Scientology, and they pursued him fairly doggedly, sending him mail every single day with exhortations to “Continue Up The Bridge!” “Go OT!” He threw the mail into the trash can in the lobby, where I would fish it out. They even sent him a catalog of “mandatory donations” needed for each course. Back in the 80s one would have to spend well north of $125,000 to reach OT III and read the Xenu story. And to the best of my recollection, I don’t think I ever saw a single black face in a piece of their recruiting literature. Maybe Farrakhan got a tour of the luxurious Celebrity Centre and thought “FUCK selling bean pies! I have got to get a piece of this!” ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/148 "2015-04-01T18:31:57Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > No other religion has the same kind of secrecy. > > Love Catholicism or hate it, you can buy the complete Catholic catechism at any book store (or borrow it at any library) and find out exactly what the Church teaches on almost EVERYTHING without investing much time or money. > > In the same way, you can get a book of Mormon anywhere- even at most hotel rooms. You wanna know what it’s all about, you can find out for yourself for free. > > Similarly, any rabbi could tell you the basics of Judaism for free in ten minutes. Any Muslim imam could tell you the basics of Islam for free in a few minutes. > > Try doing that with Scientology. Correct on all counts. What’s more, the rabbi will spend five of those minutes trying to talk you out of it. I was very surprised when a evangelical sect of Islam left an English translation of the Koran hanging in a plastic bag on my doorknob. It did include a request to treat it respectfully, and I did, shelving it next to the Bible in my library. \*We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart. - - H. L. Mencken ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/149 "2015-04-01T19:10:18Z")
Alright, stop now. This thread is about Going Clear specifically, and Scientology in general. To discuss other religions, people should go start a new thread of their own. You NO IDEA how many other threads/comments sections elsewhere have devolved/derailed and are now all about other religions. Practically ALL of them! It will not happen to this thread ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/150 "2015-04-01T21:20:37Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > …Travolta’s career, about how he started out mega-successful, then practically couldn’t get arrested for a decade or two, then was reborn in 94 with Pulp Fiction. I guess i was thinking about this because the film mentioned the red-hot start of his career, but then seemed to pretend that his quite famous slump never happened… During that slump, the National Lampoon published _Diarrhetics_, a parody of _Dianetics_, which quoted a fake Travolta saying how much Scientology had guided him: “I mean, it’s like really helped me with my recent career decisions”. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/151 "2015-04-01T21:26:06Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > During that slump, the National Lampoon published _Diarrhetics_, a parody of _Dianetics_, which quoted a fake Travolta saying how much Scientology had guided him: “I mean, it’s like really helped me with my recent career decisions”. [_Diarrhetics_–over 10,000,000 purged!](http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/lampoon/lamp1.htm) ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/152 "2015-04-01T21:47:02Z")
Let’s refrain from jr. modding this thread. There will always be conversation drift in a thread and some comparisons to other religions may be relevant in discussing Scientology and the documentary. If anyone feels it is getting out of hand, please report those specific posts. No warning issued. > [@Equipoise](#): > > Alright, stop now. This thread is about Going Clear specifically, and Scientology in general. To discuss other religions, people should go start a new thread of their own. You NO IDEA how many other threads/comments sections elsewhere have devolved/derailed and are now all about other religions. Practically ALL of them! It will not happen to this thread ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/153 "2015-04-01T22:28:14Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > And to the best of my recollection, I don’t think I ever saw a single black face in a piece of their recruiting literature. > > Maybe Farrakhan got a tour of the luxurious Celebrity Centre and thought “FUCK selling bean pies! I have got to get a piece of this!” I noticed the same thing (nothing but whites) while watching the documentary and mentioned it to my wife. I DID see a black man on stage at one of their meetings, standing behind either Cruise or Miscavige. I don’t know, but I doubt the exclusion of blacks had as much to do with color as it did with money. I would suspect Scientology would be happy to take anyone’s money, regardless of their genetic makeup. When Scientology hit the ground, there weren’t that many black people that were capable of coughing up the money necessary to achieve the levels. Or, perhaps black people have a much better BS detector than their white coutnterparts. Does anyone know the COS policy on race? ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/154 "2015-04-01T22:54:28Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I noticed the same thing (nothing but whites) while watching the documentary and mentioned it to my wife. I DID see a black man on stage at one of their meetings, standing behind either Cruise or Miscavige. > > I don’t know, but I doubt the exclusion of blacks had as much to do with color as it did with money. I would suspect Scientology would be happy to take anyone’s money, regardless of their genetic makeup. When Scientology hit the ground, there weren’t that many black people that were capable of coughing up the money necessary to achieve the levels. > > Or, perhaps black people have a much better BS detector than their white coutnterparts. > > Does anyone know the COS policy on race? The links provided by **davidm** had quite a bit about Hubbard’s racism - which, to be fair, was not much worse than his peers. But the whole idea of the Nation of Islam uniting with the Church of Scientology - that is something that would have me checking to see if someone had sent me to an Onion article. There were a few in the audience at one of the International Associations of Scientologists Nuremberg Rally, but they were notable by their rarity - and they might have been placed there for visuals. And you’re right. You can join a pretty exclusive country club for about the same amount of money at attaining the OT levels, so it’s not surprising to see the same effect on membership. For his myriad flaws (psychosis, viciousness, and a smirk that I really want to slap off his face) David Miscavige sees mainly green. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/155 "2015-04-01T23:00:58Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I noticed the same thing (nothing but whites) while watching the documentary and mentioned it to my wife. I DID see a black man on stage at one of their meetings, standing behind either Cruise or Miscavige. > > I don’t know, but I doubt the exclusion of blacks had as much to do with color as it did with money. I would suspect Scientology would be happy to take anyone’s money, regardless of their genetic makeup. When Scientology hit the ground, there weren’t that many black people that were capable of coughing up the money necessary to achieve the levels. > > Or, perhaps black people have a much better BS detector than their white coutnterparts. > > Does anyone know the COS policy on race? From the _Diarrhetics_ spoof: > [@](#): > > **What about Negroes?** > > We have some former Negroes, but the process of reaching the Nirvana-like state of Empty[TM] has made them white. Also kinda funny that Clear = Empty. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/156 "2015-04-01T23:11:18Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I DID see a black man on stage at one of their meetings, standing behind either Cruise or Miscavige. Was it Isaac Hayes? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/157 "2015-04-01T23:15:10Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > Was it Isaac Hayes? I’m pretty sure I saw him in the one of the crowd scenes. I thought “Chef! And then the Super Adventure Club.” ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/158 "2015-04-01T23:57:27Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > > [@Princhester](#): > > > > Well yeah but when are you people going to start a thread about Mormons? And anyway, lots of other religions are much worse. > > No other religion has the same kind of secrecy. > > Love Catholicism or hate it, you can buy the complete Catholic catechism at any book store (or borrow it at any library) and find out exactly what the Church teaches on almost EVERYTHING without investing much time or money… > [@gaffa](#): > > Correct on all counts. What’s more, the rabbi will spend five of those minutes trying to talk you out of it… WHOOOOSH! It was a joke, kids. See Equipoise’s comment in his OP: > [@Equipoise](#): > > Btw, any attempts to derail the thread/deflect the attention of readers with anything akin to “All religions are bad” or “When’s the expose of Morminism (or other) coming out?” or anything designed to get people talking about something other than the movie, the book it’s based on, or Scientology in general, will automatically get that sign turned on over your head, with a big arrow pointing down, flashing SCIENTOLOGIST SCIENTOLOGIST SCIENTOLOGIST. Sheeesh. I didn’t think anyone wouldn’t get it. Sorry **Equipoise**. Princhester SCIENTOLOGIST ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/159 "2015-04-02T01:11:45Z")
Seriously though, the apparent endorsement of Scientology by the Nation of Islam is strange. Although they are both UFO cults, so maybe it’s not so strange. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/160 "2015-04-02T03:48:26Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Seriously though, the apparent endorsement of Scientology by the Nation of Islam is strange. True, but I just can’t reconcile Farrakhan’s beliefs with Hubbard’s. I’m trying to imagine two less likely compatriots. The Raelians and Lyndon LaRouche? > [@](#): > > Although they are both UFO cults, so maybe it’s not so strange. True, but it’s enough to make one believe that there is some sort of SPECTRE-style group working to unite all the fringe religions for some even more dastardly plan - although it’s hard to imagine what it could be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259.md?page=9)