# Going Clear, Alex Gibney's new documentary about Scientology **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 29, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259 "2015-03-29T03:10:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/161 "2015-04-02T14:02:36Z")
I haven’t read every post in this thread so excuse me if someone has already posted the following link. It’s an interesting article about Scientology titled, “10 Bizarre Snapshots From The World Of Scientology”. > **[10 Bizarre Snapshots From The World Of Scientology - Listverse](https://listverse.com/2015/04/02/10-bizarre-snapshots-from-the-world-of-scientology/)** > > Scientology is one of those weird things that's pretty impossible to explain. It's got all the signs of a cult, but it's absolutely massive, inspiring I was struck by the similarity between Scientology and another famous organization. I recently saw a show called “Gangland”. It’s a documentary about many things. But the first episode is about Prison Gangs. The first gang they showed was the “Aryan Brotherhood” aka “The AB” or “The Brand”. They interviewed a former member who said that when someone is indoctrinated into the “AB”, the first thing they are told is, “The AB comes above everything else. Above your family, above your religion, even above God.” When I read the above article about Scientology, I found it to be chilling. “Scientology comes above everything else. Above your family, above your religion, even above God.” ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/162 "2015-04-02T17:52:09Z")
It’s like Buddhism! But evil! ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/163 "2015-04-02T18:59:15Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > It’s like Buddhism! But evil! Yen Buddhists? The kind that believes that money is to root of all even, thus they will take all of yours to help you reach the Godhood? ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/164 "2015-04-02T19:55:59Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > It’s like Buddhism! But evil! > [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I haven’t read every post in this thread so excuse me if someone has already posted the following link. It’s an interesting article about Scientology titled, “10 Bizarre Snapshots From The World Of Scientology”. > > [10 Bizarre Snapshots From The World Of Scientology - Listverse](http://listverse.com/2015/04/02/10-bizarre-snapshots-from-the-world-of-scientology/) Nobody had linked to it earlier. Thanks for that! ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/165 "2015-04-03T04:17:20Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > they just take shit that is known to work, put them in their courses, and _that_ is what ventriloquist’s dummies like Travolta mean when they “say” stuff like that. Absolutely. But that’s an odd thing for a religion. It’s a perfectly reasonable thing for some kind of awareness training program. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/166 "2015-04-03T04:35:51Z")
Did anybody notice just how _tiny_ Miscavige is? Even Tom Cruise towers over him. Google says Miscavige is 5’1", which makes it almost comical to picture him administering all the beatings described in _Going Clear_. . ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/167 "2015-04-03T15:12:11Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Did anybody notice just how _tiny_ Miscavige is? Even Tom Cruise towers over him. Google says Miscavige is 5’1", which makes it almost comical to picture him administering all the beatings described in _Going Clear_. I have thought that was one of the elements of Cruise’s friendship with Miscavige. The book Going Clear describes him as being completely ripped though. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/168 "2015-04-03T17:11:08Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > The part about the IRS caving in is puzzling to me. Can the US government really be SLAPPed[sup]\*[/sup] into submission like that? Surely they can defend themselves against that kind of legal harassment. I’ve wondered if there wasn’t something else going on behind the scenes. Blackmail? Bribes? [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/essays/260695.html](http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/essays/260695.html) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/169 "2015-04-03T17:14:57Z")
If you’re that small, I don’t think “ripped” is going to help you much. The only reason Miscavige gets to administer these beatings is that the victims are too psychologically cowed to retaliate. The beatings sound like a manifestation of Miscavige’s own insecurities (or possibly 'roid rage, given what you’ve said about him being ripped). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/170 "2015-04-03T17:21:41Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > The IRS is just one entity in the US government, and they all have their own budgets, all of which have to be approved by Congress. So it’s not as if the IRS had an unlimited piggy bank from which to pay lawyers to defend 2500 lawsuits. They’d exhaust their budget, then have to go to Congress to get more, and probably wouldn’t get it until the next budget. In the meanwhile, the CoS would be lobbying Congress, which they have done successfully using various front organizations. And Congress (esp the GOP) has a long history of cutting the IRS budget for political reasons, which effectively is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/171 "2015-04-03T17:23:22Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > If you’re that small, I don’t think “ripped” is going to help you much. The only reason Miscavige gets to administer these beatings is that the victims are too psychologically cowed to retaliate. The beatings sound like a manifestation of Miscavige’s own insecurities (or possibly 'roid rage, given what you’ve said about him being ripped). You’re right, it’s unlikely that the little shit could hold his own in a fair fight. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/172 "2015-04-03T17:28:30Z")
One thing is not clear to me about the IRS settlement. Can the IRS revisit Scientology’s tax exempt status at some point based on changed circumstances, or does the settlement foreclose the issue forever? This whole thing sounds like a good argument for eliminating tax-exempt status for religion altogether. Why should religions get preferred status over, say, a social organization of atheists? ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/173 "2015-04-03T18:41:02Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > One thing is not clear to me about the IRS settlement. Can the IRS revisit Scientology’s tax exempt status at some point based on changed circumstances, or does the settlement foreclose the issue forever? The granting of tax-exempt status _was_ a re-visitation. [From Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology#Classification_as_church_or_business): From 1952 until 1966, Scientology was administered by an organization called the Hubbard Association of Scientologists (HAS), established in Arizona on September 10, 1952. In 1954, the HAS became the HASI (HAS International). The Church of Scientology was incorporated in California on February 18, 1954, changing its name to “The Church of Scientology of California” (CSC) in 1956. In 1966, Hubbard transferred all HASI assets to CSC, thus gathering Scientology under one tax-exempt roof. In 1967, the IRS stripped all US-based Scientology entities of their tax exemption, declaring Scientology’s activities were commercial and operated for the benefit of Hubbard. The church sued and lost repeatedly for 26 years trying to regain its tax-exempt status. The case was eventually settled in 1993, at which time the church paid $12.5 million to the IRS—greatly less than IRS had initially demanded—and the IRS recognized the church as a tax-exempt nonprofit organization. They did it once, they can do it again. The most obvious point is that they publish a catalog of services with “mandatory donations” that have to be paid to reach each level. > [@](#): > > This whole thing sounds like a good argument for eliminating tax-exempt status for religion altogether. Why should religions get preferred status over, say, a social organization of atheists? An excellent question, but one that seems far better suited to **Great Debates**. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/174 "2015-04-03T23:15:42Z")
Miscavige wearing that Sea Org uniform with all of that braid and bling on it makes him look even more like a tin pot dictator. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/175 "2015-04-03T23:48:09Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Miscavige wearing that Sea Org uniform with all of that braid and bling on it makes him look even more like a tin pot dictator. I have to wonder if it is cause or effect? Could you put a decent, empathetic human being in that getup and produce a vicious petty thug, or is this just how they choose to dress? Most of the decent military leaders I have known choose to wear the least ostentatious version of their uniform whenever possible. On the other hand Pol Pot and Kims 1, 2 & 3 wore plain uniforms. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/176 "2015-04-03T23:58:47Z")
In the book Going Clear, it’s mentioned that Miscavige was pretty ripped even when he was kid. It’s also mentioned that when he was a kid his parents left him with a caretaker, and that they warned the caretaker to never ever touch him if he was having an asthma attack. I don’t recall if they tell him specifically what would happen if he touched Miscavige during an asthma attack, but it’s pretty clearly implied that he would beat the shit out of them. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/177 "2015-04-04T04:10:36Z")
Here’s some info about why the documentary wasn’t shown in Canada: [Why Canadians Can’t Watch HBO’s Scientology Doc](http://canadalandshow.com/article/why-canadians-cant-watch-hbos-scientology-doc) When Lawrence Wright’s acclaimed Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood, and the Prison of Belief was published in 2013, it debuted at number three on the New York Times harcover non-fiction bestseller list. Its publisher hasn’t sold a single copy in Canada. That’s because Random House chose not to distribute the book here. It was generally assumed that this was out of fear of a libel lawsuit from the notoriously litigious Church of Scientology. Canada and the United Kingdom, where the book was also witheld from stores, share rules that make it easier for plaintiffs to win libel suits. Fear to speak up as a result of potential lawsuits is often called “libel chill.” Now Wright’s book has been adapted into a film by director Alex Gibney. This past Sunday, it premiered on HBO in the United States and, as John Doyle noted on Friday, not in Canada. Doyle asked HBO Canada why they weren’t airing the doc. They told him it was simply a matter of distribution: their agreement with HBO in the US does not include all of their documentaries, and some of them need to be negotiated with other distributors. They did not specify whether they hope to air the documentary at a future date. Interestingly, HBOCanada also didn’t show an episode of Real Time With Bill Maher that featured Lawrence Wright as a guest. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/178 "2015-04-04T04:54:13Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > If you’re that small, I don’t think “ripped” is going to help you much. The only reason Miscavige gets to administer these beatings is that the victims are too psychologically cowed to retaliate. The beatings sound like a manifestation of Miscavige’s own insecurities (or possibly 'roid rage, given what you’ve said about him being ripped). > [@gaffa](#): > > You’re right, it’s unlikely that the little shit could hold his own in a fair fight. I’m reading the book now, and on this issue: [QUOTE=Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood, and the Prison of Belief] …pointed out that the reason no one outside of the executive circles knew about the abuse … was that people were terrified of Miscavidge - and not just physically. Their greatest fear was expulsion. _“You don’t have any money. You don’t have any job experience. You don’t have anything. And he could put you on the streets and ruin you.”_ [/QUOTE] At this point, Scientology had been going on for decades. There were people raised in it. It offered no education. It was all they knew. And there’s this total dick in charge who can point at you and say, “Leave.” Not only do that, but then actively attempt to ruin your life from then on - he’s done it before… ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/179 "2015-04-04T05:06:33Z")
And now a musical interlude… > [@](#): > > THE ROAD TO FREEDOM > Music and lyrics by L. Ron Hubbard > Performed by John Travolta, Leif Garrett and Frank Stallone; background vocals by Jeff Pomerantz and Lee Purcell ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259/180 "2015-04-04T05:12:35Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > At this point, Scientology had been going on for decades. There were people raised in it. It offered no education. It was all they knew. And there’s this total dick in charge who can point at you and say, “Leave.” Not only do that, but then actively attempt to ruin your life from then on - he’s done it before… Yeah, it’s heartbreaking to read about a grown woman who had never read a single book not written by Hubbard. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-clear-alex-gibneys-new-documentary-about-scientology/716259.md?page=10)