# ''Going Dutch'' etymology question! **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 13, 2001, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-dutch-etymology-question/81446 "2001-09-13T21:09:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jeni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Jeni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeni)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-dutch-etymology-question/81446/1 "2001-09-13T21:09:17Z")
What’s the origin of the phrase to “Go Dutch,” meaning to split the bill for something. I embarassed myself today by saing that it wasn’t from the Dutch, but it was after some tree that split in half. ??? I have to have proof now to redeem myself 🙂 I couldn’t find it on the web! ---
**Author:** ![maralinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@maralinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maralinn)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-dutch-etymology-question/81446/2 "2001-09-13T21:16:08Z")
[http://www.word-detective.com/back-l2.html](http://www.word-detective.com/back-l2.html) I’m going to hazard a guess that what you’re asking about is the phrase “Dutch treat,” meaning “no treat at all because each person pays his or her own check.” “Dutch treat” is a linguistic relic of a low point in relations between England and The Netherlands. Back in the 17th century, when both countries were building their global empires, their intense rivalry found an outlet in a wide range of popular sayings invented by each country to insult the other. Since we are primarily an English-speaking culture, the few phrases that have survived are, inevitably, those disparaging the Dutch, but even those are rarely heard today. According to Hugh Rawson, who explores such topics at length in his wonderful book “Wicked Words” (Crown Publishers), many of the English anti-Dutch terms became popular in the U.S. because of confusion with the word “Deutsch,” or German, and were often applied to German immigrants. For the connoisseurs of insults among us, Mr. Rawson lists more than two pages of anti-Dutch slurs once popular. Along with “Dutch treat,” which originally implied “cheap,” other insults once popular included “Dutch courage” (liquor), “Dutch defense” (a retreat), “Dutch headache” (a hangover), “Do a Dutch” (commit suicide), “Dutch concert” (a drunken uproar), and “Dutch nightingale” (a frog, which seems an especially low blow). “Dutch treat” has long since lost its original sting, and today “pay your own way” seems to be standard practice among those who date. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-dutch-etymology-question/81446/3 "2001-09-13T21:19:47Z")
Check here under [Dutch treat](http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-dut1.htm). And this [here](http://www.word-detective.com/back-l2.html) gives the same interpretation. In a nutshell, they say these are derisive terms from the Brits from old standing biases that are now just part of the common lexicon. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-dutch-etymology-question/81446/4 "2001-09-13T21:21:43Z")
That first part should be: Check here under [Dutch treat](http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-dut1.htm). ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-dutch-etymology-question/81446/5 "2001-09-13T22:08:55Z")
I changed the title of this thread from **URGENT etymology question!** to the more descriptive **‘‘Going Dutch’’ etymology question!**. Please try to chose more descriptive titles in the future. bibliophage moderator GQ ---
**Author:** ![cowcrust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b4bc9f/32.png) [@cowcrust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowcrust)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-dutch-etymology-question/81446/6 "2001-09-14T00:53:15Z")
How about “Double Dutch”? There’s a song with DD dancing in the chorus, but I remember we used to call skipping with two ropes moving in opposite directions DD too. Does _Wicked Words_ mention it by any chance maralinn? ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-dutch-etymology-question/81446/7 "2001-09-14T02:52:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cowcrust \* > \*\*How about “Double Dutch”? There’s a song with DD dancing in the chorus, but I remember we used to call skipping with two ropes moving in opposite directions DD too. Does _Wicked Words_ mention it by any chance maralinn? \*\* Once again, the Word Detective comes to our rescue. He address “Double Dutch” in [this column](http://www.word-detective.com/121800.html#taxidoubledutch): > [@](#): > > “Double dutch” jumprope requires hopping through two jumpropes twirling in opposite directions, like an eggbeater. If that seems like an impossibly difficult skill to master, guess what? That’s why they call it “double-dutch.” Double-dutch rope jumping was probably invented by New York City, not Dutch, children. Its name is a relic of the rivalry between England and The Netherlands back in the 1600’s, when both nations were establishing global empires. Back then, the English referred to anything they didn’t like or considered foreign as “Dutch.” Even hundreds of years later in America, if something was very confusing or difficult, it was known as “High Dutch” or “Double Dutch.” And anyone who’s ever seen double-dutch jumprope will agree that it’s the perfect name. Also, “Double Dutch” is used to refer to an unintelligible language. ---
**Author:** ![Popup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Popup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Popup)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-dutch-etymology-question/81446/8 "2001-09-14T08:12:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeni \* > \*\*What’s the origin of the phrase to “Go Dutch,” meaning to split the bill for something. \*\* Well, as WorldWideWords said (in the link provided by **ShibbOleth** ) > [@](#): > > The stereotype of the Dutchman among the English at this period was somebody stolid, miserly, and bad-tempered, and these associations, especially the stinginess, were linked to several phrases. The notion that the Dutch are somewhat tight has also survived in several other european countries. And let’s face it, they come from a country with limited natural resources, and got very rich from trade. This made people jealous, and it is still said that (warning, racial stereotypes): > [@](#): > > The dutch are the only people who can buy from the Jews and sell to the Scottish and make a profit.