# Going out on a limb: Kobe fucking did it, man. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599 "2003-10-10T02:07:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/1 "2003-10-10T02:07:46Z")
[http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2542353/detail.html](http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2542353/detail.html) Yeah, I know. Innocent until proven guilty and all that…but this girl has fucking handprints on her throat and vaginal tearing…plus her story just rings true to me. It doesn’t sound made up. This isn’t all the evidence there is and it sounds like Kobe’s own taped statement may be problematic for him. The defense had already begun the obligatory smear job of the victim: > [@](#): > > Defense attorney Pamela Mackey suggested Winters had no idea when the bruise occurred. He said a nurse told him it came during the attack. Mackey asked Winters how he knew if the bruises in the woman’s vaginal area were consistent with nonconsensual sex. He had said that the nurse told him. She then asked if Winters asked the nurse if the bruises were also “consistent with a person who has had sex with three different men in three days.” The defense has introduced absolutely no evidence that the victim _did_ have sex with three men in three days, they’re just postulating that _maybe_ she’s a slut. The cops believed the victim. The cops have a pretty good instinct for this kind of thing and so do prosecutors. They knew this would be a tough case and that they had to be sure. I think they _are_ sure. I just have a gut feeling that Kobe really did do this. Oh…I forgot to mention that victim’s blood is on Kobe’s T-shirt, her fucking _blood_. Either Kobe is a rapist or he’s just a sick fuck who likes to choke teenage girls from behind and fuck them hard enough to tear ther vaginas. I used to be a fan of Kobe as a player. I thought he seemed a little smug but I didn’t think he was a thug or anything. I wish this wan;t true but I have a sinking feeling that it is. The sad part is that he’ll probably buy his way out of this and the victim will be villified as a liar and a slut. Fuck you, Kobe. I hope you go to prison. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/2 "2003-10-10T02:12:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Either Kobe is a rapist or he’s just a sick fuck who likes to choke teenage girls from behind and fuck them hard enough to tear ther vaginas. Maybe she likes very rough sex. I’ve taken no side on this but how can a man prove he didn’t rape a woman if both partners like it rough and all you have is her word against his? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/3 "2003-10-10T02:12:11Z")
[Jim Brown, Johnnie Cochran, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton, in unison] You are a racist, sir! [/preemptive quote from a bunch of bigoted assholes] There, now that that’s out of the way, I don’t give a rat’s ass whether he did it or not. If he did, I hope it was worth it for him. If he didn’t then he gets to play a kids game for a buttload of money for a few more years. Big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/4 "2003-10-10T02:21:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Either Kobe is a rapist or he’s just a sick fuck who likes to choke teenage girls from behind and fuck them hard enough to tear ther vaginas > [@](#): > > Fuck you, Kobe. I hope you go to prison So if he isn’t a rapist then you still hope he goes to prison for liking rough sex? I must have misunderstood what you were meaning. If it was too rough and she wanted him to stop once the act had begun and he didn’t, then he is a rapist and should go to prison, but just because someone likes rough sex isn’t enough for me to hope someone goes to prison as long as it was consensual sex. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/5 "2003-10-10T02:31:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JuanitaTech \* > \*\*Maybe she likes very rough sex. > > I’ve taken no side on this but how can a man prove he didn’t rape a woman if both partners like it rough and all you have is her word against his? \*\* Well, there’s no fucking evidence that she “liked it rough” is there? How much damage would have to be done before it was believable that she _was_ raped? A girl emerges from a hotel room with bruises, torn clothes and a torn vagina and says she was raped. The medical exam is consistent with her allegation. There’s no evidence that she enjoys rough sex or that she has ever made false allegations. I just believe her, that’s all. I’m no longer interested in bending over backwards to give Kobe every benefit of a doubt that nobody would give him if he was just Joe the janitor. I don’t see any reason for her to make this up. I know the “golddigger” defense is built in for any celebrity who wants to commit this crime and it’s impossible for the victim to disprove. This girl has made no attempt to seek either money or publicity at this point . It seems to me that absent video tape, this is the kind of crime that no amount of forensic evidence or testimony will be enough to convince some people of guilt. If I was on a jury I would want to hear Kobe’s side, and would want some damn good answers. I would not be interseted in the victim’s sexual history but I would want to know if she had made false accusations before. Ultimately, in a case like this it just comes down to who the jury believes and it may be impossible to find a jury that will not contain at least one person star struck enough that they will acquit no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/6 "2003-10-10T02:43:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*I would not be interseted in the victim’s sexual history but I would want to know if she had made false accusations before. \*\* What’s the difference? In a rape trial, there really isn’t any. If she got laid before, good for her. If she was a teaser, not so good for her. That’s the only sexual history that matters here. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/7 "2003-10-10T02:44:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Greathouse \* > \*\*So if he isn’t a rapist then you still hope he goes to prison for liking rough sex? I must have misunderstood what you were meaning. > > If it was too rough and she wanted him to stop once the act had begun and he didn’t, then he is a rapist and should go to prison, but just because someone likes rough sex isn’t enough for me to hope someone goes to prison as long as it was consensual sex. \*\* I don’t actually believe it was consensual rough sex. I was being sarcastic. I hope he goes to prison for being a rapist. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/8 "2003-10-10T02:46:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*What’s the difference? In a rape trial, there really isn’t any. If she got laid before, good for her. If she was a teaser, not so good for her. > > That’s the only sexual history that matters here. \*\* Teasers can still get raped. Prostitutes can get raped. Past sexual history proves absolutely nothing about the incident in question. ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/9 "2003-10-10T02:46:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*I don’t actually believe it was consensual rough sex. I was being sarcastic. I hope he goes to prison for being a rapist. \*\* I figured you were being sarcastic, but I just wanted to clarify. Thanks for clearing it up. As you were… —Daniel ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/10 "2003-10-10T02:49:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, there’s no fucking evidence that she “liked it rough” is there? What constitutes evidence of liking it rough? She certainly isn’t going to testify she enjoys rough sex. What if she was experimenting and this was her first time? > [@](#): > > If I was on a jury I would want to hear Kobe’s side, and would want some damn good answers. I would not be interseted in the victim’s sexual history but I would want to know if she had made false accusations before. If her sexual history includes a penchant for rough sex, it seems to me it would be relevant. > [@](#): > > It seems to me that absent video tape, this is the kind of crime that no amount of forensic evidence or testimony will be enough to convince some people of guilt. …or innocence. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/11 "2003-10-10T02:50:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Teasers can still get raped. Prostitutes can get raped. Past sexual history proves absolutely nothing about the incident in question. \*\* It matters to the jury, friend. All they need to see in her is the girl that rejected them and broke their heart in senior year and Kobe walks, even if he did do it. That’s why sexual history matters. Heavy-duty teasers have a very hard time getting the benefit of the doubt, because everyone can remember that one that gave them the shaft. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/12 "2003-10-10T02:54:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*It matters to the jury, friend. All they need to see in her is the girl that rejected them and broke their heart in senior year and Kobe walks, even if he did do it. That’s why sexual history matters. Heavy-duty teasers have a very hard time getting the benefit of the doubt, because everyone can remember that one that gave them the shaft. \*\* You’re right, but that just goes to show that such evidence can be imflammatory and prejudicial without actually being probative from a purely logical standpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/13 "2003-10-10T03:01:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JuanitaTech \* > **What constitutes evidence of liking it rough? She certainly isn’t going to testify she enjoys rough sex. What if she was experimenting and this was her first time?If her sexual history includes a penchant for rough sex, it seems to me it would be relevant.** You need more than pure hypotheticals. You’d have to find a witness that said she liked to get choked or something. The “experimental, first time” thing is frankly, pretty lame. It’s not the kind of thing a teenage girl is going to decide to experiment with for the first time with a total stranger in hotel she works at. If Kobe was not a celebrity. If she had been pulled into a broom closet by Joe the janitor, is there anyone who buy that defense? I ask again, how beat up would the victim have to be before it was believable that she had been assaulted. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/14 "2003-10-10T03:02:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JuanitaTech \* > **She certainly isn’t going to testify she enjoys rough sex. What if she was experimenting and this was her first time?** So, either she is in some deep shit for letting this go on as long as it has, or she may perjure herself to cover up her non-wholesome persona and her bad judgement. If either of your statements is true she is a horrible person to put someone through what Kobe has been through. Of course, at this point odds are just a good that Kobe did commit rape. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/15 "2003-10-10T03:04:26Z")
**Airman** , I should also add that I would have no interest in Kobe’s sexual history either unless it involved previous assaults. ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/16 "2003-10-10T03:08:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\* > > There, now that that’s out of the way, I don’t give a rat’s ass whether he did it or not. If he did, I hope it was worth it for him. If he didn’t then he gets to play a kids game for a buttload of money for a few more years. > > Big deal. \*\* Please tell me you didn’t mean what I read that as. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/17 "2003-10-10T03:10:22Z")
What did you read it as? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/18 "2003-10-10T03:13:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by adam yax \* > \*\*So, either she is in some deep shit for letting this go on as long as it has, or she may perjure herself to cover up her non-wholesome persona and her bad judgement. If either of your statements is true she is a horrible person to put someone through what Kobe has been through. Of course, at this point odds are just a good that Kobe did commit rape. \*\* From [another](http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2544380/detail.html) story > [@](#): > > Winters said that before she began telling her story, he told her that if this was a false accusation, that she would be in big trouble. She said that she understood. > > Winters said she sounded mad when she was telling him her story. I think it’s just a question of plausibility. I don’t find it plausible that a nineteen year old girl would decide to have rough sex with a stranger in a hotel room, then wait twelve hours, then go to the police and submit to an invasive rape kit exam, then give a story to detectives which is convincing enough for them to seek charges against an immensely popular. superstar athlete. Kobe’s taped statement has still not been heard and according the linked story, his defense team is worried about it. Kobe’s story may not be consistent with the forensic evidence. That would be very bad for him. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/19 "2003-10-10T03:14:16Z")
What the hell kind of rough sex shreds up the genitals and leaves choke marks? That’s beyond rough sex to me. I gotta say I’m leaning towards DTC with this one. From what we know, it seems fairly cut and dry to me. (just my personal opinion of course) ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599/20 "2003-10-10T03:14:56Z")
I believe her story based on what is available so far. I can’t believe that “Kobe” would do that. But, what the hell do I really know about him except that he is one of the best scorers in the NBA? I guess the extent of the “vaginal tearing” could become a real issue. What kind of bruises are we talking about? Glad someone else gets to argue about that stuff. Teasing is irrelvant. Her sexual history (unless she had one with Kobe) is irrelevant (Kobe’s is not). Consent is what matters. Did she made it clear that she did not consent to sex? Of course, Kobe will say it was consensual, if he takes the stand, which he must, IMO. I don’t see how Kobe gets the benefit of the doubt in this situation. If the woman had to be somewhere in reality, as she claims, her story seems more credible. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-out-on-a-limb-kobe-fucking-did-it-man/206599.md?page=2)