# Going Postal **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 6, 2004, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-postal/238594 "2004-04-06T18:25:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-postal/238594/1 "2004-04-06T18:25:09Z")
In [another thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=249345) touching on workplace violence, several people mentioned “going postal” and “post-office violence.” Is there really anything to this, statistically, or is it an urban myth? The workplace shootings I recall of late were in schools and offices (not post- ). What are the stats on post offices and shooting sprees? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-postal/238594/2 "2004-04-06T18:33:59Z")
The Media Literacy Review notes that there were 29 postal shootings in 13 years – not an outrageously large number, considering the number of workers in the USPS. However, they also note: “In 1986, an Oklahoma post office worker shot and killed 15 fellow employees in less than 10 minutes. In 1989, a postal worker killed his wife at home and then drove to the post office where he shot and killed two colleagues and himself. In both October and November of 1991, two fired postal workers returned to work to kill supervisors and co-workers. It happened twice more in 1993, and twice again in 1995. It’s easy to see how the term “going postal” entered our lexicon.” ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-postal/238594/3 "2004-04-06T18:40:14Z")
I can think of a couple of reasons why Post Offices might suffer from these types of incidents: Postal hiring rules give preferences to miliitary veterans. So the workforce is more familiar with weaponry than your average office. Management/labor relations are poor at the Postal Service, which makes for a lot of “disgruntled employees.” ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-postal/238594/4 "2004-04-06T18:44:29Z")
[Newman\*]"Because the mail never stops. Every day it piles up more, and more, and more and you gotta get it out but the more you get it out the more it keeps coming in, and then the bar code reader breaks, and then. . . "[/Newman] - Hello, Newman! ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_Samaritan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bad\_Samaritan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_Samaritan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-postal/238594/5 "2004-04-07T04:28:03Z")
A friend of mine works in the main postal hub in town. He says there are numerous signs & banners around the building that state: THE POSSESSION OF WEAPONS & FIREARMS ON THESE PREMISES ARE IN VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAW. Or something to that effect. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-postal/238594/6 "2004-04-07T04:41:23Z")
My letter carrier and the postman who delivers to my favorite bar both assure me they are quite gruntled. That’s a comfort. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-postal/238594/7 "2004-04-07T11:11:47Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > My letter carrier and the postman who delivers to my favorite bar both assure me they are quite gruntled. That’s a comfort. 🙂 The letter carriers (the ones who actually deliver the mail to your home or business) and the postal clerks (the ones who work at the post office itself) are different groups of people, and don’t even belong to the same union. In fact, there are four separate unions: the National Association of Letter Carriers, the National Rural Letter Carriers Association, the American Postal Workers Union, and the National Postal Mail Handlers Union. The carriers belong to one of the first two, the clerks to one of the latter two. Traditionally, the letter carriers have had far, far fewer labor problems than the clerks, whose unions have long had a very adversarial relationship with management. I believe that every USPS employee who has “gone postal” has been a postal clerk, not a letter carrier. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-postal/238594/8 "2004-04-07T11:15:59Z")
By the way, Newman on _Seinfeld_ is a letter carrier, so when he refers to the mail piling up, and the bar code reader breaking down, that’s a script continuity problem! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-postal/238594/9 "2004-04-07T12:20:43Z")
**Eve:** _What are the stats on post offices and shooting sprees?_ The gummint has assembled some [statistics](http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00032345.htm) on this, though offhand you might not expect to find them at the Center for Disease Control: > [@](#): > > \*\*Occupational Injury Deaths of Postal Workers – United States, 1980-1989 \*\* [additional data for subsequent years discussed below] > > Extensive media coverage of work-related homicides at U.S. Postal Service facilities raised the concern about whether postal workers are at increased risk for work-related homicide, particularly from those committed by disgruntled coworkers. Based on national surveillance data, neither the Postal Service industry nor postal occupations are among the groups at increased risk for work-related homicide […] > > Editorial Note: […] This analysis indicated an occupational homicide rate among Postal Service workers that did not exceed the rate for all U.S. workers. > > Media attention to violence in Postal Service facilities resulted in press reports that enumerated violent incidents over a defined period (1983 through 1993). By comparing a newspaper review of occupational violence in the Postal Service (5) with cases reported in NTOF, NIOSH identified five work-related homicides not included in the NTOF database. Incorporating these five cases into the calculation of a work-related homicide rate for the Postal Service increased the rate to 0.63 per 100,000 workers, nearly equal to the average overall national rate (0.64) for the same period. However, it was not practical to similarly identify work-related homicides that were not included in NTOF for other industries; such an enumeration of missed cases would probably increase the average annual all-industries rate. > > Although the occupational homicide rate for the Postal Service industry is similar to the national rate for all industries, coworkers appear to be disproportionately responsible for homicides that occur in the Postal Service. In other words: No, the USPS is not more homicide-ridden than US industries on average. However, when there **is** a homicide victim on the job in the USPS, s/he is more likely to have been killed by a co-worker. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-postal/238594/10 "2004-04-07T12:25:56Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > However, when there **is** a homicide victim on the job in the USPS, s/he is more likely to have been killed by a co-worker. Funny, you’d think it would be the customers who’d be the guilty parties. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/going-postal/238594/11 "2004-04-07T12:51:58Z")
Thanks, **Kimstu**! From reading the papers, you’d think high shcools were the most dangerous place to be in the U.S.